FFP scopes
Well I went and done it, been looking at entry level/cost FFP scopes for the last week and was really looking at the Falcon Menace 4-14×44 until someone commented that BSA has one (Midway exclusive not even on BSA site) that is an almost exact copy except for the turrets, that is rumored to be made by the same company. So went ahead and ordered both, BSA from Midway and the Falcon from SWFA. Figure I’ll check them out and keep the better of the two.
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Some might be hesitant to ask:
What is the difference between a first and second focal plane?
Reticle placement within the erector tube determines if the riflescope is a First or Second Focal Plane. The erector assembly is a critical assembly within the riflescope and is what is responsible for magnifying or de-magnifying the image.
A reticle in the First Focal Plane is placed at the front of the erector assembly and remains in the same visual proportion to the target across the riflescopes entire magnification range. While the proportions of the reticle will appear to change when adjusting the magnification, in reality the reticles values are remaining in proportion to the target. This is beneficial for rapid ranging and holdovers at various distances and magnifications.
A reticle in the Second Focal Plane is placed at the rear of the erector assembly will appear to stay constant in size across the magnification range. The reticle subtensions are set at a pre-determined magnification change as magnification changes. Simple math can be used to determine the change in values, yet the reticle line size will remain consistent for a fine aiming point regardless of magnification.
I believe this came from a Nightforce article. (nightforceoptics.com)
:hoot:
I looked at a Schmidt & Bender 12.5-50×56 Field Target 30mm Riflescope tonight that is $3500. It was really really nice. :whistle: Titanium FFP. Parallax is 7 to 70 meters. 39 oz, Illuminated Sport FT1L reticle. Wow. I have no idea how the ranging performs but it is the brightest scope I have ever seen in a dim building. They said it is all in the coatings rather than just the glass. Group buy? 😯 Only 350,000 pennies.
IDK … There´s only one thing i know , or i think i do , and that´s this : Scopes are finicky marvels of mechanical and optical parts and to make good scopes – clear, trackable, with distinct clicks and bright optics – there are no short cuts. One can not buy a scope for 200-300 $ and expect it to have the same quality, mechanical tolerances and brightness as a scope that costs 800 – 1000$. It´s simply not possible. If you want a scope with good quality you´ve but two places to go to : European (German or Austrian glass) or higher-end Japanese ones.
All that said i have to add this : I don´t need a superb scope for my AG use. I don´t do FTT, i´m not competing in BR nor do i hunt at extreme AG distances so a scope , regardless where it´s made , that works as it should and has optics that allow me to see clearly enough upto 65m is well enough for me. I put the really good scopes onto the PB´s that are used for long distances and go for middle class for my AG needs.
I thought i could live with ie that BSA and its 14x – untill today. I was at the range and shot the Cricket with a BSA on it (this was one of the “Sweet series”) with 12x , which was too little mag for me. I need at least 20x – preferably 24x – to be able to see the dot – the way i want to see it – on a BR target at 50m. I´m waiting for the release of a new Delta Ti 3-24x 50 SFP mil/mil with the greates reticle i´ve ever seen. There are two reticle choices on that modell and one is with gazillion aiming points up/down/left/right and the other one is more Hunter-oriented with lots of aiming points and two illuminated dots. I´ve ordered the “gazillion modell” and that will be my Cricket scope. It will be released at IWA in Germany 7-10 / 3.
The BSA doesn’t say how low the parallax can go.
I do remember seeing this review by airkrazy.
That looks like it could top the MidwayUSA BSA deal by a bit. Slightly higher magnification and slightly lower price. I am curious how the clarity/Brightness compares to the BSA? Let us know what you think. Despite what some say the 50 yard min parallax scopes are just not appropriate for the ranges we are shooting with diablo pellets.
I was pleasantly surprised by this scope.
Okay wells heres the verdict so far between the BSA and Falcon, Falcon I received at 1130am Saturday, sweet plenty of time to test against the BSA! NOPE!!! Repacked and dropped off at the FedEx office 45 min later…. optics at 14x were HORRIBLE! Hoping I just got a bad one but wont know till I get a replacement. Fast forward to this afternoon, mounted the BSA and took my first shot, 3 mil low and 1 mil right so dialed in 30 clicks up and 10 clicks left and took second shot….. what no way took a third shot, nope not imagining, two shots on target same hole. Happy Happy 🙂
I should add I always use a nice Leupold Rangefinder XBR 1000 I really like for range finding and not the scope. If I was in some kind of competition where the targets varied in range and I had to use the scope for ranging the BSA would be good I think.
I got to try the BSA from Midway 4-14 and the Vortex Viper HS LR 6-24. Being very brief, for walking around and shooting small pest at varying ranges in the field I thought the BSA was very good and I am now figuring how to pick one up w/o the wife knowing. Being a guy that shoots at pest from a rest at a very high magnification about 98% of the time I found out what thin and thick reticles really mean. At high magnification I found the reticle annoying on the FFP and have knocked out any consideration for a high magnification FFP scope for my kind of pesting off of the list. Like I said try it before you sink a bunch of money in a high mag FFP although I guess you can always sell it. 😉
I got my BSA but am waiting on the Falcon before I draw any conclusions but with my limited testing so far will say from a pesting stand point it works VERY well for distances out to 100+yds but for punching paper at those distances your right there are SFP scopes with much thinner reticles that are a better choice. I should add that since most my shooting is pesting I already ordered a second one, for the price you can’t beat it.
I got to try the BSA from Midway 4-14 and the Vortex Viper HS LR 6-24. Being very brief, for walking around and shooting small pest at varying ranges in the field I thought the BSA was very good and I am now figuring how to pick one up w/o the wife knowing. Being a guy that shoots at pest from a rest at a very high magnification about 98% of the time I found out what thin and thick reticles really mean. At high magnification I found the reticle annoying on the FFP and have knocked out any consideration for a high magnification FFP scope for my kind of pesting off of the list. Like I said try it before you sink a bunch of money in a high mag FFP although I guess you can always sell it. 😉
I got my BSA but am waiting on the Falcon before I draw any conclusions but with my limited testing so far will say from a pesting stand point it works VERY well for distances out to 100+yds but for punching paper at those distances your right there are SFP scopes with much thinner reticles that are a better choice. I should add that since most my shooting is pesting I already ordered a second one, for the price you can’t beat it.
I had the opportunity to try two different FFP scopes and my conclusion is from being an SFP guy – try before you buy. 😀
I got to try the BSA from Midway 4-14 and the Vortex Viper HS LR 6-24. Being very brief, for walking around and shooting small pests at varying ranges in the field I thought the BSA was very good and I am now figuring how to pick one up w/o the wife knowing. Being a guy that shoots at pests from a rest at a very high magnification about 98% of the time I found out what thin and thick reticles really mean. At high magnification I found the reticle annoying on the FFP and have knocked out any consideration for a high magnification FFP scope for my kind of pesting off of the list. Like I said try it before you sink a bunch of money in a high mag FFP although I guess you can always sell it. 😉
True, they may operate independently while residing under the same corporate umbrella but there are very distinct differences in product offerings between the two which is why I made the generalization that Kahles is now more of Swarovski’s “Tactical” line.
Swarovski is nearly exclusively slim/light capped turret hunting oriented models with rather simple reticles with the Z6, Z5, and Z3 lines. Kahles, while offering some similarly oriented models in the Helia line, is much more focused on “tactical” models in the K series with versatile ranging FFP reticles, exposed turrets, lots of erector travel, etc. They are really turning out some good stuff.
The offerings from Kahles appeal to me much more than the Swavorski models since I’m a mil/mil/FFP guy who likes to dial elevation and hold for wind whenever possible– but the Swavorski models certainly are excellent for their intended applications.
Kahles and Swarovski operate completely independently even though they are under the same parent. One does not own the other or control it.
“Both Kahles and Swarovski share the same parent corporate umbrella at this juncture; more a matter of paperwork than relating to Kahles’ own development team. They operate beneath that umbrella as independent entities. Kahles does its own engineering, develops it own proprietary coatings, designs and manufacturing methods. In-house Kahles designs are not shared with other companies including Swarovski.”
Most of the Swarovskis here are more hunting oriented– smaller & lighter, capped turrets, simpler reticles that don’t offer as many ranging or holdover options, etc. Not really my thing when it comes to features but the glass is very nice and they’re reliable. A few friends have Z6’s on their dedicated game hunting rifles (deer & elk) and after spending some time with their rifles helping with load development for that application I think they’re great.
Swarovski owns Kahles now and Kahles is their more “tactical” line which is of more interest to me (FFP, mil/mil reticle & knobs, more versatile reticles, etc.) I briefly had an early Kahles K624i. The glass was quite good, but not quite as good as my S&Bs. The turrets felt fantastic, loved the pop up tactile second turn indicator, and I did like the parallax “ring” right under the elevation knob– once you got used to it I found it reduced some hand motion, you could adjust parallax and then adjust the elevation turret without moving your hand position like you do when moving to a side parallax knob. Makes it left-hand friendly too. Tracking was perfect. I tried one with the Mil4 reticle which I liked but not quite as much as the H2CMR on my S&Bs. The new MSR-K reticle available now looks good but I haven’t tried one yet. Steiner’s version of the MSR which I have used was too thick for my taste, Kahles thinned it out a bit and modified the center and made it the MSR-K. Kahles also made some glass coating improvements about July / August 2013 (which my example didn’t have) that is supposed to step up the glass clarity even better than it was. The eyebox on the Kahles at 24x was larger and friendlier than the eyebox on my S&Bs at 25x. I don’t have an issue with the eyebox on the S&B 5-25 but in comparison the Kahles eyebox felt very “Hensoldt-like” in regards to being more forgiving of a less than perfect cheekweld and eye placement which is a big compliment. Additionally, the Kahles doesn’t tunnel on the low end like my 5-25 S&Bs do from 5-7.5x.
I probably should have kept it but a nice used S&B 5-25 popped up for sale and I sold the Kahles to get the S&B to match the others I already had; in the end while the Kahles was excellent I still liked the S&B a little bit better. Splitting hairs at that point really, both are excellent scopes.
I did get to try a Kahles K16i 1-6 at a recent 3-gun practice recently I *really* liked it. Has me scheming if I should replace the SWFA 1-6 that my shorty AR currently wears up top, but the SWFA 1-6 is a damn good scope.
Yep. S&B´s sure ain´t Grandpa´s old Leapers. Ever tried a Swarovski or Kahles ??
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Not sure i’m ready for that kind of a commitment Louis… :rofl: