Haley Scandalous, initial fill pressures and bore dimensions
I did about all I could today considering I did not have that stock as of yet.
I slugged the bore, it slugged out at .257.
I tested for fill pressures by filling to 3500 PSI and shooting one shot over the chrony and then repeating every 200 PSI unti velocity quit increasing, then I shot a strig with the 74 grain bullets and the 94 grain bullets. It was hard to keep it level over the chrony without a scope and holding the action, the speeds may in fact be a little faster if I had it perfectly level.
74 grains
3500 PSI=1074 FPS
3700 PSI=1096 FPS
3900 PSI=1100 FPS
4100 PSI=1088-1101-1083-1042
1101 is right around 200 FPE
94 grains
4200=970 FPS-1028-1005
top FPE is right around 220 FPE
Jack is sending out some more springs to raise the opening pressure.
And I am leaving to look for that stock at the PO.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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damn RC i know u want to be like me but u didnt have to buy the same stock as mine . About the leading, i have tried them both lubed and unlubed and it didnt make a difference. its just gonna happen.
I got the stock in today and sighted it in but first let me comment on leading.
We are in fairly new ground as far as air gunning here, and while we don’t have much leading with the pellet speeds, we are hitting the cast bullet/leading speeds head on now.
I started shooting cast bullets as a 22 year old Oregon State Trooper in a 357 and I have to tell you that 357 leaded badly. I had a lead remover called a Lewis lead remover and it was such a pain in the ass. I really tried hard to keep leading at bay and lower veleocities were the answer in PB handsguns.
My last seven years of cast bullets were mainly in Black powder cartridge guns, and oddly enough leading was not much of problem. A combination of SPG lube and constant cleaning because of blackpowder fouling and the lower speeds we shot, only to 1125 FPS kept most of it at bay.
But it looks like I am going to have to invest in some better cleaning products, first a longer cleaning rod.
Now about the Haley stock. It arrived, it is beautiful. I put it on and went out to the shop and set a box out at 15 yards to get a intial poi.
Damn good thing it was a large box! I was over a foot to the right, I have 107 MOA of windage in that scope. so I knew I had a major problem.
I had two things to look at, the scope bases alighment and the muzzle break.
I took off the scope and lay a 36 inch straight edge on the bases, they were straight, thank you Jack. I put the scope back on and centered it for windage on the turrents.
I then I heated up and removed the muzzle brake, first shot on the paper at 15 yards told me I had found the culprit, looks like I will have to drill that hole out a little further.
I had two bullets to try, the pure lead 257620 LYMAN mold @ .258 and 74 grains and the RCBS Cowboy mold which is a non gas checked 90 grain SWC sized again to .258 and cast from pure lead.
At 40 yards, the Lyman shot in the 3/4 inch range sighting in off the top of the 58 Mercedes and the RCBS shot 4 shots on one fill into .6
Based on that I took the remaining RCBS bullets I had cast up and went to my 150 yard range. I made up a makeshift shooting position on top of a couple grape bins, and yes Riff it was worse than the Explorer, and shot 3, 3 shot groups with out tethering. Bear in mind this was not a good set up, I had a slight eratic wind maybe 3 or 4 MPH blowing to all points in the compass if you waited long enough, and I did not allow for it when I shot.
Pressure in the tank was at 3700 PSI, perhaps not enough to launch the heavier bullets but I was there so I shot.
The worst group was 3.2 and the best was a little under 2.5 inches. The picture shows 2.67 but it is a smaller than the caliper reads if you look closer, I was standing on my tip toes to take that picture of the group at 7 feet.
I really did not have a very good set up this morning and I know the rifle will do better than this, but for the first time out it is not too bad.
I have the lead pot warming up with 20-1 alloy in it, the Shoebox is filling the tank again, I might get some shot today.
Butcher, three shots from a 4000 PSI fill takes the PSI to 2000 PSI.
Regards,
Roachcreek
As far as pure lead and speed goes, its been a standard in the PB/MZ realm forever which I’m sure most including RC already know. But since reading all the initial post on the Scandelous257 from the start, after seeing 1250+ or shall i say 11-1200+ fps, my first HUMMM was, Leading.
Shear speed will melt the pure lead easy from the friction. Doesn’t matter if its a PB or an airgun. But im sure because air is the main propellant, it might take a few more rounds before the leading starts, due to the lack of a HOT BARREL from the hot gun powder. But the sheer speed should still cause it to happen at some point.
RJ has already brought it to my attention about a month ago+- and i asked him if he had THOROUGHLY cleaned that barrel cause he is pushing that 1100 + fps threshold. And as i thought, his barrel was extremely dirty and leaded. But i think it took him about a few hundred shots to get there IIRC.
Also, don’t forget guys, John Bowman shoots Hunters Supply which i’m quite positive IS NOT PURE LEAD. They are harder by a good margin. TRUST ME, after 40, 000 rounds in his barrel, HE HAS CLEANED THAT THING NUMEROUS TIMES! TRUST ME….lol! But those are the points that no one is talking about. Many small bore (30 FPE) airgunners don’t have to clean their barrels as often for one main reason, “lack of speed” (400-900 FPS), “below trans/supersonic”. But the modern small bore/mid bore (257) speeds are approaching that of the 22 long rifle (1250 fps). So leading is now gonna become a new topic.
But in saying all that, i’m gonna start keeping track of leading and reporting on it. But i clean my barrels every 3 outings anyways and my speeds are nowhere near you guys and it wont be.
Not yet probably today on the package. I was hoping the sizing wax would work. Lot easier than have to let them dry. I have a 115 gr .308 that I have to do the same thing. They drop at .312″ and I was sizing to .309 and then .308. If not it would fill in the GC like you said. Now I just alox them and they size real easy.
Going to cast some .257 this evening. I’m down to a 100 or so. Time to make another 500 or so.
BTW did you get the package I sent you yet?
That is a lot to size down Doug.
I had the opposite experience wth the sizing wax, I was getting trailing rings traveling into the GC portions and filling it in on the bases of the 257620’s sizing then to 255, so I quit trying about a year ago.
When I got the sizing wax and you guys started shooting those 74 grainers I revisted the project with the sizing wax and did not have that trouble again.
RC
I know you told me to use imperial sizing wax. I ordered some and tried it and works for sizing bullets of small margins. But the only thing that will let me size the Lyman bullets from .259″ to .253″ is the lee alox.
I just followed the instructions and was surprised. If you don’t let it dry it doesn’t work either. I just put a little in a container and push them around until they have a light coat. Then I spread them out on wax paper to dry.
I have less than 15 shot thru mine so leading is probably not a problem yet, but then I have not looked either.
I size with Imperial sizing wax, and then shoot the bullets with the sizing wax on them.
Before that I used ATF and before that spray on moly, but they all leaded to some degree.
Doug, Lee Alox is so bad for sizing, I just throw the stuff in the trash when I get my new Lee dies, it is a the only thing I ever had luck with the stuff was for a ingredient in homemade bullet lube, and even then I found better stuff, it is a poor product. I have messed with it for over 35 years now I think, and messed with it is a good term because it is messy.
On my Talon SSS Imperial sizing wax stopped all leading, and I was always having trouble with the 25 LBT leading.
I know tha it has been said before that barrel leading is not supposed to happen with a air gun because of the absence of heat, but rub a lead bullet of any alloy against steel and you will see a lead transfer.
But we know different now don’t we.
Jon Bowman uses the same trick for removing leading that I have for years, wrap some bronze wool around a bronze brush, it removes lead very quickly, and they way his rifle shoots after 45000 bullets I wold say it does not harm the barrel either.
Or at least that 360 yard coyote did not seem to notice.
Bronze wool is hard to find some places, Ace Hardawre is supposed to carry it, or at least it is on their internet site, but I have never found it in the stores. I ordered my last bunch off of Ebay.
RC
Was gonna post that today but i aint been home.
You guys have to remember that while shooting PURE LEAD, you gotta be cautious of that 11-1250+ fps speed.
SEVERE Leading.
good point. I was thinking the same thing and wondering if the bores would need to be treated like a PB. I suppose Jon can offer his handling as he has thousands of shots down his bore already.
RJ,
Was gonna post that today but i aint been home.
You guys have to remember that while shooting PURE LEAD, you gotta be cautious of that 11-1250+ fps speed.
SEVERE Leading.
I have the same barrel in my condor and I size my bullet with the lee alox. Works good on sizing and seems to work good shooting.
I was shooting and sizing them dry and it’s a lot harder to chamber them. Went back to lube and they slide in like they are all buttered up.
RJ do you use any kind of lube or your bullets?
Well at 100yds i can 3/8 to 3/4in groups and what im doing is with a 28in barrel. I have a muzzel weight coming from doug that should take care of any muzzle jump im getting. Im hoping to get three eights groups all day at 100. I shoot with pure lead bullets. My groups started to open way up and i found out why. After around 500 shots my barrel was leaded. I dont know how many shots went down the barrel before I got it. I can tell you keep that barrel clean. U will be happy with ur gun as long as its clean.
Man that looks sweet
Lemme know when your ready to unload that 257 condor!
I need something I can adjust down a lil bit and use for 100 yards and under coyotes and crows and woodchucks that I can Hand pump!
awesome, awesome looking stuff!! I’m going to place an order when I get back to the States! Since the trigger’s a Timney, I assume it’s also adjustable? Keep the awesome info coming!!
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off to a good start RC, stock looks nice, I’m going with a purple thumbhole 😎