New Jersey Gun Law and Talon SS
😥
I just purchased a Talon SS from Pyramid Air which was delivered to a firearms dealer in NJ recently. When I went to pickup the rifle I was told it was illegal in NJ and I had to exchange the rifle. According to the dealer the rifle is considered a sawed-off-shotgun due to it’s barrel lenngth. Any shotgun with a barrel length under 18 inches or rifle with a barrel lenth under 16 inches is considered a sawed-off-shotgun which is illegal in NJ. In NJ all BB\Pellet airguns atre considered a firearm. Barrel length is measured from breach to muzzle.
As the dealer said he recently discovered this through research can anyone verify or deny this law?
Does anyone own a Talon SS in NJ?
Considering this law as valid. What would be my best option as an exchange? I plan on using only in back yard for target and plinking. I had ordered a .177. Pyramid Air mentioned possibly ordering a larger barrel. I would have to see if the dealer is willing to replace the barrel.
All Replies
PS – Thanks for the point about calling it a “weapon.” I never thought of it that way and certainly don’t want to do more damage to my already lost-cause than NJ has already done!!!
In reverse order, you’re very welcome for the comment. For sure you’re a white hat, exactly the sort we need far more of. Keep it up.
As to the situation, I agree it’s dark indeed. One has to wonder what might be done. After all, here in California one guy managed to get airgun hunting approved for small game (including turkey with .20 and up) by ‘working the system’. It took a lot of work, and took two years, but it happened. Here on the Left Coast, birthplace of PC thinking and all, hunting regs were expanded to include airguns.
OTOH, if the best legal minds in NJ are referring to citizens as ‘subjects’, maybe all is lost.
Doug Owen
I sent an E-mail to a well known and respected law firm in NJ that specializes in Gun cases and asked very specifically about the Talon SS. Here is the response I got.
“… the Talon problem. NJ still defines airguns as firearms. The integeral silencer on the Talon therefore would be illegal to possess as a firearm silencer under NJ law. BTW, the Talon is hardly a “tradational” pellet firing airgun anyway. Its a great airgun with advanced features, but not for New Jersey subjects (citizens.) ”
I am waiting to hear back from them as to whether I can post their name/firm name. Until then I figured I would post the info at least, so everyone has it.
So there you have it. The Talon SS is not for NJ.
Again I say, “Sigh ! Grrr !”
-Matt
PS – Thanks for the point about calling it a “weapon.” I never thought of it that way and certainly don’t want to do more damage to my already lost-cause than NJ has already done!!!
Who wants a weapon that your constantly worried about using???
Sigh. Grrrr.
Matt, sorry but I have to completely agree with you. Grief could come when you least needed it.
One minor quibble, however, the term ‘weapon’. The NRA advises (strongly) not refering to proper firearms as weapons (rather rifle, pistol, shotgun, whatever it really is). Shovels are weapons (or can be), it’s not the sort of term we really want airguns to be thought of by the public. From our side, if they thought of them as toys it would be much better for us.
I understand it’s a military thing….but we’re not in the military, our enemies are closer to home and read the same papers as us.
Doug Owen
There is no argueing the “silencer” issue. Even without adding internal baffles to the extended frame, the empty tin can is essentially a device added to the “firearm” to reduce it’s overal sound level. The fat lady sang and we can all go home… No Talon SS for NJ owners…
Who wants a weapon that your constantly worried about using???
Sigh. Grrrr.
Funny thing, same law in Oregon. A couple of years back a buddy and I ran into it while Ground Squirrel hunting (yes, with my Talon….). We were near the border, crossed over Sunday afternoon as the only gas station on our side was closed. We pulled in, Mike hit the windows, I started pumping, two guys came running out begging us to stop! We figured we were on Candid Camera……
Man, oh man, those guys got some kinda union going on up there.
Doug Owen
I still think its funny that all the gas stations are full service and you cannot pump your own gas by LAW in NJ.
As I said a few months back, I don’t think there is a barrel length problem becasue of the way it’s measured. The length that would count would include the shroud, just as it does in other cases (my example was ten inch sub gun barrels on ARs with 8 inch sleeves soldered on).
The silencer issue is another matter. They have not only changed the definintion of firearms from what the ATF uses, but the definitoin of silencers as well.
With such laws, NJ must be the safest place in the country?
Doug Owen
I’d move out of Jersey too.
f. “Firearm” means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.
g. “Firearm silencer” means any instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance for causing the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm to be silent, or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm.
o. “Sawed-off shotgun” means any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun, whether by alteration, or otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
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OK. So there is an interpretive loophole in that the “Sawed off shotgun” definition’s 16″ length of a “rifle” does not apply to an air rifle because an air rifle is defined as a “firearm” in the state of NJ but not a “rifle.” The “Sawed-off shotgun” definition is very specific to define it as either a “rifle” or “shotgun”, or being created from a “rifle ” or “shotgun”.
But for real life situation, most police and dealers will likely chose to interpret the law conservatively, which will not end in our favor.
Plus, the law is pretty unambiguous on the extended shroud. The 18″ metal frame extension surrounding the 12″ barrel is clearly an, “instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance for causing the firing of any…firearm to be silent, or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any…firearm.”
So even if we get past the first bit with the 16″ barrel, the shroud sinks us.
I guess the only question is whether the, “instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance,” is OK if it is a physical part of the weapon and not removable. But it can be easily interpreted that the frame extension is an “instrument, weapon or appliance.” It’s not really an attachment though.
I think that if you consider the vague nature of the 12″ barrel and the not-so-vague issue of the frame extension…. NJ citizen’s are screwed.
Sorry.
Back in the 70’s I lived in NJ. Iwent to a sporting goods store just to look at airguns( Crosman pumps) the clerk asked me for my firearms purchasers ID card. Did not know what he was talking about . So I found out I had to go to the police ,pay about $4-$5 bucks,and get my finger prints taken. I do not remember a form,but the Chief of police had to OK it before I got it. And I don’t remember how long it took to get.
I did get it and went back to store and bought a crosman in .177.
My Mom was not happy ! But boy I was ! LOL Used it shooting into garage with a pellet trap only at night (so no small kids) And that is what I told the Cop. My neighbor called the cops, Icould see him standing in the window. what an A-HOLE!!
Did you have an I. D. card ?
Good luck to you,Bob
Yes he did. You’ll note the last post in the thread is mine, pointing two flaws in this logic:
Airguns are not prohibited, but rather regulated. You can still get them fhrough FFLs, just like conventional firearms (which are also regulated)
The Scope and Intent of the law involved is marking safe guns, not defining airguns as such.
Anyway, that was my ‘take’ on it six months ago, still is. Consider the lack of reversal of the NJ law forcast by Doctor B? BTW, that (basing the argument on what the other BB says) is really kinda funny given the way guys around here won’t take TG’s word on anything. If guys really think Beeman is all that good a source, how about his doom and gloom for guys that seek to quiet down their airguns?
Anyway, they can (and still do) regulate airguns. We just had a landmark SC court case involving handguns in Washington DC, remember?
If it was that simple, PA (and no doubt a bunch of others) would simply send the AG for NJ a nastygram and tap into a bunch of bucks. Right?
Doug Owen
WOK also posted in the Quick Reference section.
Mike
This seems to be a popular theme, ‘they are forbidden by the feds from doing this..’. However, I’m one of the guys that doesn’t think so (since guys are getting hosed by it, and places like PA are passing up on the sales).
So, can you show me where that law is? I’ve read the GCA many times, I don’t recall it. For sure if the lawyers at the NRA agreed with the idea, Wayne would have written the letter already and it wouldn’t be a problem.
Remember, fed firearms laws are about real firearms, not airguns.
So, this is important, let’s don’t repeat rumors. Anyone got it a cite for this?
Doug Owen
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Lots of guys live on the PA side of the border and commute in for work. At least that’s what my neighbor did, and he’s armed to the teeth. He even has buried a rifle and 1000 rounds of ammo in a secret place, and he has survival supplies in a basement bunker. 😯
I’m not making this up.