New Talon SS .22 Chrony Results
I started with a 2700PSI fill pressure and after about 20 shots I was down to 2500 with the powerwheel set to 1. I was shooting JSB Exact Jumbo Express Diablos that weigh in at 14.35gr… I had the PW set to 3 before the test, but the velocity was at nearly 870, so I decided to take it down to 1 on the PW. Are these highly variable results typical with the PW set so low, or is my gun just weird? All 20 shots fit into a dime size hole at 15-20 yards, with very little effort.
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and please do becareful NOT to overtighten the set screws. You can easily damaged the top hat.
If you’re brave loosen the set screws and you can rotate the top hat off! Anyway, this is how you would change the top hat’s gap.
Absolutely not. No play is acceptable. Your tophat is adjusting itself with every shot. Carefully snug the setscrews after applying blue locktite.
John
I’ve seen this kind of erratic behavior with crappy pellets. Any chance your dealer knocked the tin off the counter … seventeen times? Roll a few down a mirror and listen for the tick tick tick of flat spots. More likely, you need more spring tension -> higher power setting. Start 8+. If so, there’s a few tricks.
Anyway, looks like you’re getting a decent curve after 5 shots, except for some weirdness. The o-ring might help too. I’d do that before more difficult work. Like deburr and graphite lube the bore.
John
When I pinch the top hat it has some rotational play. Is that normal?
wow that thing is jumping all over the place! I wonder if your top hat is loose or something. Keep tuning and keep us informed!
I filled her up to 3k PSI and put about 30 pellets through the chrony. Half a dozen or so didn’t read, but I think the velocities were more erratic at 3k vs 2700. I also put the PW to 4 if that matters. The first graph seems to smooth out around 2600 PSI. I think next run I’ll do starting at 2700.
maybe you would be better off posting on the yellow and viewing this forum as a guest not a member one more time feeding bad info its not going to end well for you
no need for name calling sir! And I do know what I’m talking about I’m been doing this for awhile.
drspeedy1050 if your gun is shooting slow with an oring pm me your email address and i will sent you a hammer weight from my condor that will also bring up your fps i have 2 extras now that both my guns have TT hammers with slap mods
Do NOT listen to this idiot he has no clue what he is talking about filling to 3000 your curve is going to jump a lot till you get down to 2700-2400 then it will stay pretty consistent till you shoot down to 1300-1100
fill using your pump AirForce gauges are not that accurate so if 2700 on your pump is 3000 on your gun that is perfect fill to 3000 on the gun shoot till you see poi change remember that number and go off that
Orings work great for your bell curve try some thick thin whatever works best for your gun
put an oring behind your tophat then if you still need more fps try polishing and porting your tophat here is a video
In my experience (running very high power levels) an o-ring can actually increase velocity due to more stable valve operation. Also, some pellets, such as JSBs and polymags, are stable over a wide velocity range. Even velocity sensitive pellets are stable in several ranges. For example, Eun Jin pointed won’t shoot for shit above 880-890, but are nail-driving accurate 940-960. Further, different guns and different setups have a different velocity sweet spot for different pellets. It’s this mostly inexplicable variability that keeps this place interesting, well that and H 😯 😯 t’s bullshit.
When someone brings up the idea of a “magic pellet”, they’re thinking in terms of guns with little or no power adjustment. With AirForce guns, any well made pellet is magical with enough perseverance.
The point is, take time to get the feel of your gun. Figure out what it wants to do, and work from there. Sorta like bonsai. Blow some coin on a variety of pellets, different styles, different weights, and see what works best. But mostly, work with the chronograph and take notes. It’s fun, even with a (raggle snazle @#$%&) hand pump.
John
If you lose fps and it is slower than you want after the o-ring you simply open the top hat gap a little to recover it. The ideal speed is not 850 – 900 the ideal speed is where the particular gun shoots the pellet the most accurate and that varies from gun to gun and manufacturer to manufacturer. If the ideal fps was 850 – 900 then the guys that use sub 12 ft lbs guns would not have an accurate or usable gun would they 😉 Also one other thing adjusting the top hat out does not cause the hammer to hit it harder it just causes it to open the valve farther and increase its dwell time. drspeedy listen to the people that really know how to tune and have experience with this platform if you want an easier and less frustrating attempt at tuning youre gun.
I would agree that an o ring would help, but be aware that you may lose about 50 – 100 fps. The ideal speed of the pellet should be between 850-900, so adding o ring might not work. Let us know how it goes.
Tophat gap adjusts the valve stroke, and thus the valve cycle duration. An o-ring narrows the gap, but by eliminating the bounce, it’s break even, or maybe even improved performance. Your tank pressure determines the useful range of the power wheel, since more hammer force is required to cycle the valve at higher pressure. At 3000psi, it takes more hammer force to cycle the valve reliability. If you want to reduce velocity, you need to drop pressure. Some folk are shooting .22 under 2000psi. At low pressure, valve bounce is more of a problem since the tank pressure resists the hammer strike less. (Resistance slows the hammer, reducing bounce. Less pressure, harder hit.)
Thing is, AirForce guns have a steep learning curve because they’re so adjustable. I spent hours shooting long strings and taking notes as pressure dropped. JSBs are good for this since they are stable in a wide velocity range, so eliminating one of many variables you’re dealing with. Eventually things will begin making sense.
The power wheel is really for fine tuning. In the manual, AF notes that you should waste a shot after adjusting the PW, to settle the action. And that’s God’s own truth. I was determined to figure out a way to adjust power as pressure dropped. Ain’t happening. Your easiest adjustment is tank pressure, and you’re too high. Next is the tophat. Get past your hesitation, it’s not tricky. Just grab a set of automotive feeler gauges and select a stack that provides the proper thickness and have at it. Just don’t overtighten the setscrews as you can dent the stem. I opted for a Talon Tunes one-piece tophat. Radically more complicated to tune with the inserts and completely worth the effort.
Sounds like the PA guy was on the right track, just add an o-ring and have fun!
John
John, I took the tank off and the top hat gap is a nudge over .08” from the factory. So I’m gonna keep it there and re chrony tomorrow. Thanks for the guidance.
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Absolutely not. No play is acceptable. Your tophat is adjusting itself with every shot. Carefully snug the setscrews after applying blue locktite.
John
I don’t think I have an allen key small enough for this little bugger. What size do I need?