R3 .30 caliber problem and fix
The Problem:
I first noticed after about 2K rounds my velocity dropped off. That can be common, sometimes the HST needs to be readjusted. So I screwed in the HST 1/4 turn and I was back at the 890 fps I was before. I was fine for about another 150 rounds until the real problem started. The gun started behaving erratic when trying to find zero on my target. I put the Matador on the chrony and I found a strange phenomenon. When the gun was full (220 BAR) no manner where the HST was set the most I could get out of the gun was 750 fps. As the pressure in the reservoir dropped the speed conversely would rise until below 150 bar the speed was at 912. I concluded that the valve must be stuck and the reason for the change in speed is that the valve gets more resistance from the air in the reservoir the higher the pressure. The valve must be allowed to move freely in the regulator. The belleville washers are clean, the O rings are perfect and the regulator is assembled correctly. What I found was the valve stem was slightly bent. I know this problem developed over time because the gun was super consistent when I was new. . The valve stem was not too long as it was in Ed’s factory specs. I straightened the valve stem reassembled the gun and I still had the same problem.
The fix:
what I found was the valve stem was slightly oversized and a little rough. Because the stem is steel and the valve stem housing is brass the valve was getting caught/sticking and in my opinion the valve couldn’t open enough. When the gun fell below the 150 pressure setting the valve didn’t have to work as hard to move forward when the hammer hit the stem. I polished the valve stem with 220/20/400/600/800/1200/2000 grit paper on a lathe until I could see my reflection in the valve stem. The valve moved like it was on ball bearings inside the housing. The regulator gave me 24 shots with the average at 880 and the ES at 2.6 fps.
I welcome any criticism you may have about my fix. It’s is possible that I just got lucky. Hell, it’s better to be lucky than good anyway.
All Replies
I think that was with a bent valve stem, and maybe with 50g JSBs instead of the 45g JSBs. The .30 Edguns definitely can shoot in the high 800s to mid 900s fps with the 45g JSBs.
The weight is ~25g together with a rod.
I do not understand you. You were able to achieve 700ish FPS in R3 .30 gen1 with gen1 VS? Ed was shooting that at around 880 FPS.
So you have .30 gen1? What FPS were you able to achieve with old valve stem?
Do you by chance know the weight of the standard hammer? I have heard the big boy is 37g or so.
DT
Yes, Gen 1. It bent the 2mm VS, even the new heavy brass ones, right off the bat. I recall getting maybe 600ish when on the reg but would rise as the pressure dropped and went off the reg. Valve was getting stuck open and was slow closing as it was bent or bending. It would still close due to the tube pressure. I’m getting a lot better consistency now just not at fps I would like from this platform.
I think the open force required with the .30 throat size is pretty substantial when running 130-150 bar on the reg. Hence my velocity issues. My new VS weighs 8 grams. Need more open time I think.
DT
I do not have a big hammer but I am sure some folks received it in the USA. Maybe not all of them installed it already.
So you have .30 gen1? What FPS were you able to achieve with old valve stem?
No leaks and valve stem is holding up well. I think I am going to need to go to the heavy hammer to consistently get past the reg setting. I don’t see the valve as being an issue at this point. I have been smacking it at almost full HST and it still moves freely although its still early. Maybe 125 shots now.
I am fighting the system now! I can get it to run around 750 pretty consistently with JSB 50’s at about 130 bar. As I drop off the reg the velocity goes up (into the low 8’s) telling me the valve opening is not enough with the current hammer/spring/Reg pressure….I think.
Anyone have a big hammer? Are they easy to install?
Thanks
DT
Yeah, I going to beat the crap out of it for sure! Lol.
That brass nut is actually the top of a threaded sleeve that goes all the way to the transfer port. New one is similar but set to accommodate the new stem size. Could do a 3mm with a new sleeve if I ever needed too. I’m just a bit worried I may not have enough HST/hammer mass to get it up to 880 now. Gong to play with reg pressure and valve spring now. Anyone have a spare heavy hammer laying around? :biggrinn:
DT
Update: seeing around 810 fps now. Lighter valve stem spring and a bit lower on the reg. Open dwell is a bit better now. Closing in…I think.
Go big or go home eh???
4mm that’s a biggie.
Turn that baby up and let it rip!!!!!
Ok, up and running at about 750fps with 44gr JSB’s. No leaks. Maxed out on HST so I need to play with the valve spring a bit. I do have the original (small) hammer design too. New VS weighs 8 grams. Some tuning will need to take place. Not enough shots but the 4mm stem should hold up no problem.
DT
Getting her back together and will provide some feedback in the very near future. Only problem is I can’t find my digital calipers! Dang it!
DT
No shit! I’ll send you mine, what’s your address??????? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I hope everything goes well!!!!
All right fellas. Just got my package today with some goodies for the .30. :biggrinn:
Getting her back together and will provide some feedback in the very near future. Only problem is I can’t find my digital calipers! Dang it!
DT
Machine GUN where are YOU?????
You did it to yourself Ed (2)k U.S. for a gun you don’t bother testing out first? Good Luck with that Ed. The hay days of Edgun are but a drop in the memory bucket. IN ENGLISH……………….They are over Edgun has kicked itself in the ass. Anyone walking around with their heads up their asses about this complete fuck up on ED’S part deserves exactly what they get. Edgun has not even fixed the issues with the first generation Matador .30 and he pumps out a second generation .30 with same issues? Earth to Ed Earth to Ed???? Come in Ed come in? The Leyla has first and second generation issues as well. For the money spent on these pieces of wall art I would expect much much more!
What should have happened for both Gen 1 and Gen 2 30s is that the new redesigned and tested parts should have been made available for everyone (a long time ago for Gen 1) and then distributed at no charge once the problems were discovered. Basically, a recall. It would cost Edgun inc a bit of cash but that is the price for poor QA. Any new designs should be stress tested for a high volume of shots (at least 5000 – something reasonable for the value/price of the gun).
Now, all of these costs are being passed on to the customers who are already paying a high price for the guns not to mention a huge inconvenience. Ed has not proven to his customers that a small job shop in this business is completely viable. Even the larger ones struggle but not to this degree. I have not had any issues with my UK guns including Day States and Air Arms and the AA guns have been very reasonable for the high quality especially. Bull pups are a dime a dozen now so the customers should select the higher reliable products – not just the original or legacy products. Their time may have passed.
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[quote=”shooter3″]I do not have a big hammer but I am sure some folks received it in the USA. Maybe not all of them installed it already.
So you have .30 gen1? What FPS were you able to achieve with old valve stem?i :fishinghole: