The Haley .457 is here.
My haley .457 is finally here i should have the 58 in bout 2 weeks my 457 is supposed to produce 500+fpe i got the scope mounted tonight and will shoot tomorrow and YES i Will get u guys some pics also
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It depends on how much pressure in the fill tank. Anything above 2000 psi in the tank will fill my DAQ .457 about 200-250 psi per stroke, so it may take 3-5 minutes to go from 2000 psi in the gun to 3600. But, when I’m done, I’ll still have 1800+psi in the tank. When my fill tank gets down to 1000 psi, it takes about 10 minutes to bring the gun back to 3600.
The lower the fill tank the more strokes it takes.
When we go out to shoot at my buddy’s cabin, we use a small compressor to run the booster, it only takes 100 psi to make it work.
I’ve cocked Greg’s Ranger, and it’s easier than any DAQ or Haley I’ve seen.
One more thing I noticed on the Ranger, the valve pin at the back of the valve, is very short. Less than a 1/4″. It’s a low effort gun to cock and load. You don’t need to use more than 2 fingers to pull it back to high power.
I’ve been using one of those booster pumps for almost a year. The first one I saw Haley had at LASSO. I think Jerrod has one too. I’ve seen pictures of somebody’s setup using a single tank with T using a regulator to run the low side.
I run it with 2 tanks and move the regulator from tank to tank. Let’s you keep shooting at high pressure for a long time. I just saw mellowman’s new thread talking about this same booster pump.
All you have to do to get the Corsair valve back in place is point the muzzle up and shake it slightly. The valve will fall back in place, it too long to turn around in the tube, so it’s only got one place to go. Best thing is to not let all the air out. I’ve got one, and it’s an easy fix without taking it apart. I tried using my hand pump though, and that is not a good plan at all. But, with air tanks, it’s not a big deal and I won’t give up 20-40 fpe to install the fix. They don’t charge for the parts, so if you want them get them.
I’m quite aware that 4130 is steel, technically it’s alloy steel and a lot tougher than cold rolled to get a nice finish. Besides, Cerakote doesn’t hide everything, if the metal is pitted, the parts get sanded out. Dan said the Midnight Blue color is almost as bad a bluing for showing pits and scratches and takes about twice as long to get a rifle prepped for that color. The easiest is the camo, by the time 5 colors get sprayed on and cooked, you can’t see anything.
how fast does that booster work ?
I think the ability to use 4500 psi with a light hammer spring and a 5 ounce hammer is where the hydraulic/pneumatic design experience comes in.
I’ve cocked Greg’s Ranger, and it’s easier than any DAQ or Haley I’ve seen.
One more thing I noticed on the Ranger, the valve pin at the back of the valve, is very short. Less than a 1/4″. It’s a low effort gun to cock and load. You don’t need to use more than 2 fingers to pull it back to high power.
I’ve been using one of those booster pumps for almost a year. The first one I saw Haley had at LASSO. I think Jerrod has one too. I’ve seen pictures of somebody’s setup using a single tank with T using a regulator to run the low side.
I run it with 2 tanks and move the regulator from tank to tank. Let’s you keep shooting at high pressure for a long time. I just saw mellowman’s new thread talking about this same booster pump.
All you have to do to get the Corsair valve back in place is point the muzzle up and shake it slightly. The valve will fall back in place, it too long to turn around in the tube, so it’s only got one place to go. Best thing is to not let all the air out. I’ve got one, and it’s an easy fix without taking it apart. I tried using my hand pump though, and that is not a good plan at all. But, with air tanks, it’s not a big deal and I won’t give up 20-40 fpe to install the fix. They don’t charge for the parts, so if you want them get them.
I’m quite aware that 4130 is steel, technically it’s alloy steel and a lot tougher than cold rolled to get a nice finish. Besides, Cerakote doesn’t hide everything, if the metal is pitted, the parts get sanded out. Dan said the Midnight Blue color is almost as bad a bluing for showing pits and scratches and takes about twice as long to get a rifle prepped for that color. The easiest is the camo, by the time 5 colors get sprayed on and cooked, you can’t see anything.
Plasticman:
Yes have polished out steel quite a bit harder than 4130
worst is doing a traditional hand polish on any quality early Japanese Wakazashi or Katana blade, the hardness of the hammer welded cutting edges can be insane
running a close second are the case hardened frames of Carl Gustav military rolling blocks, the rehardened 8mm arsenal conversions are extremely hard
this is ALL hand work, no machine tools what so ever if you expect decent results
4130 btw IS “Steel”…let’s not make it out to be something it’s not ok?
anyways there are many steels that are a great deal harder to work than 4130.
I appreciate the stats you posted but am more curious than ever reading that his strikers are allegedly half the weight of his peers and sprung a great deal less
yet still able to knock a valve with 4600 psi resting against it
on the Corsair the compaints I read online had to do with the valve stem not being retained…when the rifle is out of charge, the valve stem can & does fall out of it’s seat meaning the shooter has to disassemble the tube, place everything back in place, carefully charge it and not shoot it dry again
understand thats just what I read but if thats the actual case thats kinda nuts. Rather deal with a contained and sprung valve system
again thats just me
i have the shoebox compressor and have been running it for periods of 3 days straight around 70 hours , i am working with Tom testing long runs times on it , i noticed it does slow down the higher the pressure gets , how fast does this booster system work ? at lets say 1500-2000 .
this might be a good way to run the shoebox to 1500-3000 on a tank then use it to run that booster to 4500 if it does it fast .
Thanks RC for the tube info.
Would you know how the valve and fill plug are anchored?
Walter….
Pabs,
Of course your not going to get more than one 4500PSI fill with one 44 cuft tank filled to 4500 PSI.
If you cascade two tanks you will get more, and really if your shooting more than two or three shots hunting big game, you need to spend more time on the range and not in the field.
The other option is to work with a fill of 4200 or 4300 PSI, and again cascade.
I figure I will have more than enough shots with the rifle filled at 4300 PSI and my little Pygme to refill it once. But you have to realize I have hunted deer and elk with large bore black powder rifles 45/70 and 45/100 which had a limited range in the field.
The area I hunted, about a 1 square mile area behind my house, had different enviroments offering different shooting situations. When I used a 340 Weatherby or a 300 mag, I hunted the canyons and took long shots. When I started hunting with the Sharps rifles, even though I regularly competed in 1000 yard shooting at steel targets with the Sharps rifles, I hunted the game trails that I had created in dense brush, entering the trails with the wind in my face, wearing amplfield ear muffs both for hearing protection, and the fact that grazing elk are noisy. This allowed me to stalk with in a reasonable distance, ideally under 50 yards to make my shot.
I did once hammer a bull 4 times with 500 grain round nosed 45/70/500 military load, but I had two factors creating that fiasco, one was round nose bullets which even in a 457 bore do not create much shock, and the fact that elk are tenatious, the first shot was lethal, as were the 3 follow up shots, all I had to do was wait after the first shot, he would have fallen over, but with elk, you shoot them until they go down.
But even with the large case PB’s I never carried more than 5 or 6 rounds with me. Three in the mag, one in the chamber and one each in each rear pocket to reduce noise.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Dan
I don’t doubt the 4600psi number that’s why I won’t comment on it, I am certain it can be done
most of my curiousity is regarding material and wall thickness as thats an extreme number
another point that seems to be overlooked in all the back & forth is unless you have a compressor the user would seem to be SOL as there are no hand pumps capable of charging this system to capacity
truly, even SCBA bottles really won’t give you a full charge
those detachable pressure tubes will need to be charged directly at the compressor to get the numbers advertised on his website.
frankly I don’t quite understand how one can knock a valve with 4600psi working against it unless you are heavily sprung and running significant mass in the hammer, all of which works against easy cocking and a crisp, no creep release given the simplistic trigger
Not saying it’s impossible, just that the system has to be seriously pushing the safety envelope well past what every other manufactuer of PCPs on the planet considers acceptable.
understand I seriously do like 80% of what McVey has done, I am dubious regarding the merits of points already well hashed out here
just need to see where everything stands once the dust settles and more XPs are in use.
You know, all you have to do is ask and Dan will tell you the answers to the questions. The idea that he makes a big secret of the materials in his guns is only yours.
As far as bluing, ever polish out a piece of 4130 chrome-moly?
Sanding out steel is much easier than 4130. The 4130 seamless tubing he uses is 1-1/8″ diameter with a .095″ wall.
4130 (Chromoly) Normalized Alloy Steel
Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 97,200
Yield Strength, psi 63,100
Elongation 25.5%
Rockwell Hardness B92
3:1 safety factor at 4300 psi (http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm)
His hammers are 4340 and weigh 1/2 what Haley or Quackenbush use.
As far as hammer springs, his are custom made and are rated a lot less than 50 lbs of spring force.
Dan will flat out tell you, what he does and doesn’t make. He doesn’t make stocks. He doesn’t do Cerakote in house, it’s done by a FFL gunsmith. XP does all the prep work, sanding, sandblasting then takes the parts over to be coated. He doesn’t make springs, screws or o-rings. He buys raw barrels, 20-24′ lengths of raw materials and makes pieces.
While I was at it, I asked about this missing return spring. First, all XP rifles have them. He makes the Corsair rifles without them. On purpose. The coil spring in the air tube is to protect the valve from damage if the rifle is dry fired. It catches the valve before it hits the fill end of the air tube. There is a return spring setup that can be installed in the rifle, but it limits the power by lowering the peak performance pressure. Instead of peak power at 3600-3800 psi it drops down to 3200-3400 psi, effectively lowering the power from 240-250 fpe to 200-210 fpe. He said guys with hand pumps need it and won’t pump to 3800 psi anyway. If you have a Corsair and have to have a return spring, call Randy and get one.
He also said that they shot a .45 Glock through their chrony setup using a 228 grain hollow point, he wasn’t sure of the powder load, it was a friends gun. It went 841 fps making 358 fpe. A 28″ barrel Ranger.45 shooting a 225 grain conical @3000 psi on low power shoots 920 fps making 441 fpe.
I asked Greg about his pig shot, he said that 385 grain @4000 psi makes over 650 fpe.
So, the way I understand this, you can buy a 450 fpe? rifle that may or may not be full of dirt or rust for $750 or a 600+ fpe rifle that, so far, has been built from nothing but high grade materials, using a ceramic baked on “paint” for $1200. Hmmmm that’s a toughie. 🙄
Wouldn’t fancy buying the kit to have a ready supply of air for a 4500psi refill each time 😯 I know the shoebox will fill near that high, but that takes time and an electrical supply. How many 4500psi fills are you going to get off a standard size carbon tank out in the field?
I do get a charge with regards to how many makers use terms like .45 Handgun when describing power ranges without clarifying exactly what kind of handgun, ie cartridge & barrel length they refer to
a stock Sam Yang is as powerful as some .45 pistols
I too admit to a bit of curiousity regarding McVeys pressure tube design as per his website he is charging a 1 & 1/8th diameter tube to 4600 psi
not going to speculate one way or another but thats an unheard of pressure for AGs
That is why i have waited so long to buy another big bore airgun , for about 6 years now , i knew someone would come up with a gun that would shoot at 4500 psi , i knew when that was achieved the fps/fpe would come up dramatically ,
Dan Mcvey has done it in a big way ,producing numbers higher than any other airguns available to the public before it , using the best materials for the price of the gun .
you can buy the gun with out the stock , that drops the price $200
i am sure you could buy the gun un coated from him also , and coat it with what ever you wanted
The ranger is a game changer for sure , for the big bore airguns , i think there is a good chance now of a lot more states having a season for big game airgun hunting with a gun like the ranger to use ,
in fact i will be showing this gun to WA.D. of fish and wildlife , they have a budget short fall right now , if they added airgun hunting , their revenue would go up .
Walt:
I do get a charge with regards to how many makers use terms like .45 Handgun when describing power ranges without clarifying exactly what kind of handgun, ie cartridge & barrel length they refer to
a stock Sam Yang is as powerful as some .45 pistols
I too admit to a bit of curiousity regarding McVeys pressure tube design as per his website he is charging a 1 & 1/8th diameter tube to 4600 psi
not going to speculate one way or another but thats an unheard of pressure for AGs
Plasticman:
so with his broad background in high pressure as a “design engineer” he sticks a valve in the Corsair with out a retainer for the stem?
sounds like quite the oversite no?
case remains Cerakote is paint, yes a very good paint but still paint and not the wonder drug of finishes some pan it out to be
used it many times
it’s great for the elements, better than bluing but this idea that taking a blued gun in the brush will destroy it is just silly
People that actually hunt have been using blued & browned rifles/shotguns in the woods for centuries
It’s not as though extreme wear resistant paint on firearms is new either as both the British and Belgains have been using said finishes on military arms since the last World War…best of that breed were the baked enamels used by FN on the FN49 and the wrinkled shrink paint used on the Stirling SMg both of which have long history in Jungle, Desert and Marine environments
bottomline is Cerakote is a great deal quicker and far more economical to apply than a 800# polish & blue
anyone telling you different is just blowing smoke up your ass & trying to make your money theirs
To look at it another way if I was building rifles I would use Cerakote as well simply due to the less time I would need to invest as a builder.
oh, and paint don’t “polish”…that is diversionary talk for the paint wearing off, most likely only on the “sear” hook which shouldn’t be viewed as a problem…Cera does the same thing sooner or later on slide rails on pistols too.
As far as the liners…thank you for admitting McVey is using the same damn barrel liner as Haley as Track liners Are mfg’d by TJ’s so the potential accuracy will be similar
no matter how it’s spun The trigger design is basic to the point of being crude
sometimes basic is best, sometimes not
as I stated there are reasons even the French abandoned this set up after the Gras
Bottomline is if the folks who invest in the XP like the gun they get I won’t be sitting on the sidelines telling them their rifle is a piece of shit when it’s not, particularly since I myself have never touched one
but that’s not been what’s been at work in this mega thread started by RJ in hopes of giving a candid review of his own Haley
from the very start, within the first five or six posts on the very first page of now 20 pages RJ was trolled by others mostly folks who never owned a Haley and quite a few who have never owned a Big Bore period
kind of crazy isn’t it?
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The lower the fill tank the more strokes it takes.
When we go out to shoot at my buddy’s cabin, we use a small compressor to run the booster, it only takes 100 psi to make it work.
that is fast , i might just buy one of those , use the shoe box to get the pressure up to 1500–3000 then the booster to 4500psi