The Haley .457 is here.
My haley .457 is finally here i should have the 58 in bout 2 weeks my 457 is supposed to produce 500+fpe i got the scope mounted tonight and will shoot tomorrow and YES i Will get u guys some pics also
All Replies
Thanks for addressing my comments directly to the best of your ability. Your arguments are cogent, informed and compelling. I stand corrected.
You are SOOOOO full of shit! Someone has shot this gun and that makes Dan H an expert! Can’t you understand that! IT”S FUCKING CNC! 12 is greater than 11, IT’s CNC! I’m not answering shit because 12 is bigger than 11 and IT”S CNC!!!!! I swear! Fuck you, it’s CN fucking C! If you had a CNC machine you could build a gun out of a turd (grade 12 of course)! CNC biatch!
😆 😆 😆 (I slay me…)
As I suspected, Dan H doesn’t know enough about what I presented to even address the topics.
I don’t really care care what Dan M decides is a cost effective trigger to get his guns to market at an acceptable price and performance level. I also concede that his chosen design is well machined and the construction details appear very clean. That does not mean that he picked the best trigger or that clean machining can overcome crude design, it’s just a cost/schedule/performance trade like everything else at a reasonable price is.
The fan-boi adulation and orgasmic comments from Dan H are just moronic. He mentioned earlier in his rants against JH something about “exposing” one thing or another when all the exposure was old news and he just jumped in with nothing but a rant and a couple crap and dubious pictures to add. He throws in a bunch of adjectives about this that and the other and has 0 experience for any of it. He tosses out technical terms and clearly has no idea what they mean. He has “trick” gear to work on 2 strokes (that being cutting edge of course). He knows all about how strong SS bolts are (grade what? 12?). And he’s probably reading Wiki right now to find out what I was talking about in my last post.
Personally, my gut feel based on my limited experience is that the Ranger trigger design is probably safe for many, many years. I don’t take any offense at that feel being questioned though! I also think that the design is crap and a better design could have been incorporated at the same price point. Speaking of price, I don’t think the gun is over-priced. It’s a niche market with low volume and the capital expense for that level of construction spread over a small base is reasonable. We’ll see if the trade-offs were good ones but there is no way to do low volume work without trade offs.
Pretending that this set of trade-offs represent the pinnacle of airgun design and craftsmanship is just drivel that only a guy who’s got money spent and desperately needs his decision validated would spit out.
Whooooo-eeeeeeee ! ! ! another fresh mean load from GRANDMA Jer !
hit that buzzer at the old folks home for another depends change !
looks like the staff will be busy tonight !
RS,
You are SOOOOO full of shit! Someone has shot this gun and that makes Dan H an expert! Can’t you understand that! IT”S FUCKING CNC! 12 is greater than 11, IT’s CNC! I’m not answering shit because 12 is bigger than 11 and IT”S CNC!!!!! I swear! Fuck you, it’s CN fucking C! If you had a CNC machine you could build a gun out of a turd (grade 12 of course)! CNC biatch!
😆 😆 😆 (I slay me…)
As I suspected, Dan H doesn’t know enough about what I presented to even address the topics.
I don’t really care care what Dan M decides is a cost effective trigger to get his guns to market at an acceptable price and performance level. I also concede that his chosen design is well machined and the construction details appear very clean. That does not mean that he picked the best trigger or that clean machining can overcome crude design, it’s just a cost/schedule/performance trade like everything else at a reasonable price is.
The fan-boi adulation and orgasmic comments from Dan H are just moronic. He mentioned earlier in his rants against JH something about “exposing” one thing or another when all the exposure was old news and he just jumped in with nothing but a rant and a couple crap and dubious pictures to add. He throws in a bunch of adjectives about this that and the other and has 0 experience for any of it. He tosses out technical terms and clearly has no idea what they mean. He has “trick” gear to work on 2 strokes (that being cutting edge of course). He knows all about how strong SS bolts are (grade what? 12?). And he’s probably reading Wiki right now to find out what I was talking about in my last post.
Personally, my gut feel based on my limited experience is that the Ranger trigger design is probably safe for many, many years. I don’t take any offense at that feel being questioned though! I also think that the design is crap and a better design could have been incorporated at the same price point. Speaking of price, I don’t think the gun is over-priced. It’s a niche market with low volume and the capital expense for that level of construction spread over a small base is reasonable. We’ll see if the trade-offs were good ones but there is no way to do low volume work without trade offs.
Pretending that this set of trade-offs represent the pinnacle of airgun design and craftsmanship is just drivel that only a guy who’s got money spent and desperately needs his decision validated would spit out.
one thing at a time…
here is another question for you…would you be satisfied with the XPs trigger on say a Reminton 700 .300 Magnum?
To find a similar trigger in the firearms world you need journey back in time to the French Needlefire and a couple other post Civil War rifles
you don’t even find junk like this on an 1890s Krag Jorgenson, Lee Metford or 1891 Mauser…Christ you don’t find it on a damn 1871 Mauser
you need a French Needle Fire or some of the extremely early post civil war .58 rim fire bolt actions
Spin it however you want, it’s obsolete for a damn good reason.
Second, I kindly suggest you at least Google things prior to comment or drinking the Koolaid offered up by your local assclown Gunsmith
Hit Brownells, search Cerakote
What you will quickly learn is that there are two different versions
one is a fast cure bake, the other is a slow cure air dry
most of the folks I know doing cammo work use air dry
in any case the slow cure is just as wear resistant as the quick cure.
Cost on a 4oz kit is under 45 dollars
if you are willing to pay Bubba the local gun crank $250.00 to bead blast your gun and spray paint it you are my kinda guy as I have made thousands off your type over the years…
just keeping it real.
Jerry:
again you are spot on…words mean things
folks toss around numbers like they understand what they mean in this game
most of the old school machinists I know just laugh about “machined from billet” as being pure hype
same with grades
what blows me away is how there is this idiotic misconception that Cera is impervious to wear
tell you what…in well under 500 uses of the trigger the Cera will have chipped and otherwise worn away from the engaging points on that trigger.
If folks want a real coating they need to go to ndustrial grade hard chrome or titainium nitride and either of those will end up wearing in this application too
just boggles me that some seem to think Cera Paint is the best thing going
Christ 🙄
NOW i included you in that getting the depends changed ! another fresh load !-from Riverqueen !
Riverqueen had almost came back down to earth !!!
then his knitting buddy Jerry came on and fed him some EX-LAX – and now we are getting one load after another !
😆 😆 😆 Sheesh WOK, you seem to be quite the emotional one over this whole deal, not me
Don’t see me claiming the XP is all bad
nope its you stating all Haley rifles should be cut up for public safety
How very Feinstein of you
I merely have an issue with a $1200.00 big bore rifle having a trigger that shouldn’t be on a $50.00 pellet gun
I still think the XP is the better gun, stated that many many times now
of course you know that, you are just trolling prolonging the thread as you sometimes do 😆 😆 😆
Hey, I put up pix of my rifle so I did put up
if you can’t do the same in return to support your opinion perhaps it’s you that needs to shut up 😆 😆 😆
Plasticman:
one thing at a time…
here is another question for you…would you be satisfied with the XPs trigger on say a Reminton 700 .300 Magnum?
To find a similar trigger in the firearms world you need journey back in time to the French Needlefire and a couple other post Civil War rifles
you don’t even find junk like this on an 1890s Krag Jorgenson, Lee Metford or 1891 Mauser…Christ you don’t find it on a damn 1871 Mauser
you need a French Needle Fire or some of the extremely early post civil war .58 rim fire bolt actions
Spin it however you want, it’s obsolete for a damn good reason.
Second, I kindly suggest you at least Google things prior to comment or drinking the Koolaid offered up by your local assclown Gunsmith
Hit Brownells, search Cerakote
What you will quickly learn is that there are two different versions
one is a fast cure bake, the other is a slow cure air dry
most of the folks I know doing cammo work use air dry
in any case the slow cure is just as wear resistant as the quick cure.
Cost on a 4oz kit is under 45 dollars
if you are willing to pay Bubba the local gun crank $250.00 to bead blast your gun and spray paint it you are my kinda guy as I have made thousands off your type over the years…
just keeping it real.
Jerry:
again you are spot on…words mean things
folks toss around numbers like they understand what they mean in this game
most of the old school machinists I know just laugh about “machined from billet” as being pure hype
same with grades
what blows me away is how there is this idiotic misconception that Cera is impervious to wear
tell you what…in well under 500 uses of the trigger the Cera will have chipped and otherwise worn away from the engaging points on that trigger.
If folks want a real coating they need to go to ndustrial grade hard chrome or titainium nitride and either of those will end up wearing in this application too
just boggles me that some seem to think Cera Paint is the best thing going
Christ 🙄
For instance, the metric system does not officially use “grades,” it uses “properties” and a 12.9 metric screw is not the same as a “grade 12.” In fact a metric 10.9 is not exactly but close to a Grade 8…
Also, does Dan M actually buy a 12.9 hex head cap screw and put it in a machine to cut the head? Or, does he just buy a bag full of these? http://www.pointe-products.com/itemclass/Chrome-Plated-Grade-12.9-Metric-Socket-Head-Cap-Screws-Polished
BTW, is a higher grade screw best in this application? I doubt you could find a screw that doesn’t have the static strength to hold a hammer back. The real concern seems to be fatigue properties and long term reliability. The best screw for this application (assuming you’re going to use a screw) is the screw that has the best toughness as opposed to the highest ultimate load or static strength.
I really doubt that there is a strength issue here. I would be more concerned about long term performance and 1000 shots over a short period does not really answer that. I believe there is an answer and I see how this works fine for a long time but nothing here seems to actually address that from a technically supported argument. Are the screw heads raw steel? Chrome plated? Surface hardened after machining? Is there a corrosion issue?
Most of the questions above need to be answered through smart analysis by the builder as actual fatigue and cyclic testing would keep any low volume builder from making a dime and the technical info is available for high enough confidence analysis.
Also, if 1000 shots shows no wear, that’s great. But, what are the conditions for that test? Is the Ceracoat really as hard as the screw? NO wear on the screw or trigger? Impressive!
What about dissimilar metal corrosion? The 12.9 metric screw is a different alloy than the hammer it screws into, right? Is there an issue if some moisture gets in there over the years? How tight do you screw in the high, low and medium screws? Do you tear up the threads with every change? Most of these questions don’t matter if you design them out by cutting multiple sear points in the hammer and harden contact points to similar levels. I think that’s a point RS has been trying to make along with just pointing out the crudeness of the trigger design on a fairly expensive gun.
Anyhow, I just find it amusing that someone can hollar about 12 grade metric CNC’d screw heads as though it’s clear that 12 is better than 8 and that’s the end of the story. Particularly when that guy has mentioned he uses stainless bolts because they are so strong…
Dam GRANDMA Jerry is back with a FRESH LOAD !!! covering his knitting buddy Riverqueen ! !
Dan cnc’s the allens
well GRANDMA’S looks like ya been shot down by a guy that has shot the XP , DAM- and even after that you GRANDMA’S are still crapping your depends !
i think it’s time you GRANDMAS hit the buzzer and have the staff members at the home give ya a fresh change ! cause ya all are stinking it up !! whoooooo -eeeeeee !!!! DAM !!!!!
River,
Don’t be acting like a bitch.
Of course I have never shot them. I prefer firearms over bigbore airguns.
You want to convince everybody that the XP trigger is dangerous and you have nothing but emotion to prove that.
Which mean you have nothing.
You gonna act like you got butt hurt because people are not automatically take you word for your claims? Go ahead. But you need to put up or shut up.
I’m always surprised by how much stuff slips through on threads like this without question. I’m not just talking about adjectives tossed out by guys that have no basis to compare one trigger vs. another but technical terms that have actual definitions and describe measurable physical properties.
For instance, the metric system does not officially use “grades,” it uses “properties” and a 12.9 metric screw is not the same as a “grade 12.” In fact a metric 10.9 is not exactly but close to a Grade 8…
Also, does Dan M actually buy a 12.9 hex head cap screw and put it in a machine to cut the head? Or, does he just buy a bag full of these? http://www.pointe-products.com/itemclass/Chrome-Plated-Grade-12.9-Metric-Socket-Head-Cap-Screws-Polished
BTW, is a higher grade screw best in this application? I doubt you could find a screw that doesn’t have the static strength to hold a hammer back. The real concern seems to be fatigue properties and long term reliability. The best screw for this application (assuming you’re going to use a screw) is the screw that has the best toughness as opposed to the highest ultimate load or static strength.
I really doubt that there is a strength issue here. I would be more concerned about long term performance and 1000 shots over a short period does not really answer that. I believe there is an answer and I see how this works fine for a long time but nothing here seems to actually address that from a technically supported argument. Are the screw heads raw steel? Chrome plated? Surface hardened after machining? Is there a corrosion issue?
Most of the questions above need to be answered through smart analysis by the builder as actual fatigue and cyclic testing would keep any low volume builder from making a dime and the technical info is available for high enough confidence analysis.
Also, if 1000 shots shows no wear, that’s great. But, what are the conditions for that test? Is the Ceracoat really as hard as the screw? NO wear on the screw or trigger? Impressive!
What about dissimilar metal corrosion? The 12.9 metric screw is a different alloy than the hammer it screws into, right? Is there an issue if some moisture gets in there over the years? How tight do you screw in the high, low and medium screws? Do you tear up the threads with every change? Most of these questions don’t matter if you design them out by cutting multiple sear points in the hammer and harden contact points to similar levels. I think that’s a point RS has been trying to make along with just pointing out the crudeness of the trigger design on a fairly expensive gun.
Anyhow, I just find it amusing that someone can hollar about 12 grade metric CNC’d screw heads as though it’s clear that 12 is better than 8 and that’s the end of the story. Particularly when that guy has mentioned he uses stainless bolts because they are so strong…
I have a better question…
Has Danny ever shot a Haley or an XP?
I dunno, maybe WOK has shot both, doesn’t sound like it from the context of his posts
on the XP, apparently not one person in this thread has made actual physical contact
including me
but iI thought I was pretty clear on that in my last post 😉
nope not at all…improving an old BUT sound design is Great
taking a Bad design and making it better leaves you with just a slightly less bad design but bad none the less
What’s utterly comical about all this is if Crosman, muchless FX, Daystate, Theoben, FWB, Styer et al introduced a small bore sporter with this trigger and billed it as superior to a multi lever design nearly every one would go ballistic at the outright inaccuarcy of the hype
guess Big Bores don’t need no stinkin’ decent trigger group, particularly once the price threshold breaks a grand 😆 😆 😆
Ever shot an XP? Nevermind, I started this before I read your last post.
Having seen and shot an XP, I can tell you that what you see in one side view picture is not what you describe. Haley’s old trigger design was a stamped steel part, modified to fit his gun.
The XP trigger is machined from 1/4″ tool steel, by XP. Hardened, and Cerakote applied. The allen head screws you don’t think much of are grade 12 6mm, machined with the finish like a mirror. The trigger has a cup on the end that matches the curve of the screws, spreading the spring load about 100 degree across the end of the trigger. My guess is the trigger pull is about 2#’s and surprised me the first shot. I could not feel it break.
Haley’s new trigger is a Bold assembly with the top ground off to fit. Has no feel at all.
I’ve talked with a lot of people about different coatings. The local gun shop wants $250 to Cerakote an AR-15 in a single color. Doesn’t sound like it’s something I would try since it’s baked on for an hour. My wife would string me up by my privates if I put a gun part in her oven. lol
Bluing is pretty, but has no durability. If you hunt your guns, they’ll look like crap after a few trips through the woods. I’ve taken a number of guns after they get used a while to have a matte finish put on them because I don’t like a scratched up gun and you can only touch them up so much before they just look bad.
Slayer:
Here is my read…
Re Haley rifles
Some are very nice, others are OK and a few according to reports have had issues.
My .452 IS an early example as are the majority that others had problems with…only current bad feedback was regarding a bad QB conversion tube that WOK trolled out there as soon as RJ started this by daring to post a positiver review of his own brand new pair of Haley rifles.
If you want to check that out it’s on the Yellow’s DBOI and there is a discussion some weeks past on the Yellow’s Chinese forum.
Danny is correct about one thing in all his drivel and that is you get what you pay for
Haley rifles are/were the Marauders of Big Bore AGs
You will have less issues and better build quality with a DAQ for similar money but it’s a lottery to get a new one from Dennis
Have not handled Jack’s current production however he has gone to a proper multi lever trigger group which in that area places him significantly ahead of his peers
Dennis makes his own barrels, JH is using Track of the Wolf liners and McVey advertises that he is using a hammer-forged barrel designed for firearms.
hmmmm…
that is exactly what Track of the Wolf sells as liners
don’t know for absolute certain but I suspect quite strongly that’s what the origin is for the Ranger barrels as well, trust me…I can find out & will.
Anyways the TOW liners are fine, it’s not as though there is a great deal of firms doing Hammer forged barrels so the XP and Haley guns will deliver similar accuracy
Build Quality?
from what I have seen in pix the XP DOES have overall better construction. McVey seems upscale from DAQ and Dennis is upscale from Haley by a margin based on my own .452 JH & .50 Bandit which both are older examples. Never handled McVey’s guns so understand I am going out on a limb but based on pix and the small amount of owner feedback online I feel safe in stating that.
Finish?
Well DAQ offers several levels of hot tank bluing depend on the pre-blue polish you desire prior to hot tanking…all are nice for the price.
Haley does a decent high polish Blue but often leaves grind marks on components like bands under the blue…Tacky!
McVey finishes in Cerakote which is an extremely glorified paint and mind you very good stuff. While a blind ape can apply it monochrome I will say McVey’s Cammo’d guns look very nice in pix
I am going to add when the builder uses paint there in no pre-polish
the parts can be taken in the white fresh from the mill or lathe, fitted, beadblasted, shot & baked and enough CK to coat several rifles is under $50.00
I will put it this way, were I so inclined I could bead blast my .452 JH pressure tube and band, apply a touch of epoxy putty around that ground up welded trigger stud then shoot the band & tube with Cerra and no one would be none the wiser 🙄
The HUGE advantage I see in the XP is the detachable pressure tubes…I see this as an Enormous advantage over any other Big Bore.
Based on that and build quality alone, if the money was not an issue for me I myself would do the XP and dump the hammer & trigger “group” for custom based on my own design…that’s just me though
If you are thinking Big Bore before you go whole hog with anyone, cruise the boards and find a used Sam Yang or Dragon. Both crop up in the $400.00 give or take range and see if it really is for you.
If not you can always break even on the rifle if you decide to pass it on
thing is while quite a few folks think Big Bore is way cool, most change their mind after owning one
particularly if they don’t own a compressor.
Yea,
That ain’t breaking.
actually guys the allen set used on the xp ranger hammer are cnc -ed 12 grade alloy the strength on those is very VERY HIGH !
Dan says they have xp ranger 45’s that have been shot well over a 1000 rounds with no apparent wear on the trigger assembly or the 12 grade metric alloy’s
these xp Ranger 45-58 caliber guns are his flag ship guns , all of the experience he has had has went into these guns , one has to remember to begin with his business’s is high pressure Dan Mcvey engineered products none gun products to begin with , that are made by CNC process .
XP Ranger 45-58 material specs
Barrels are hammer forged chromoly
top action ,and bolt are 7075 billet alloy CNC machined then anodized then ceramic coated
airtube is 4130 chromoly
hammer is chromoly
trigger is made out of tool steel cnc -ed to match perfectly the CNC- ed metric 12 grade alloy metric allens in the hammer , than the trigger heat treated, then coated
all the allens /bolts /screws are metric 12 grade with the exception of the scope mounts those are 8 grade
all the threads on the gun are precision rolled for strength , not cut ,
here is the link to his web site, if look at the pics you can see just how beefed up his trigger assembly is , as is the rest of the gun
here is Bobs video MRhollowpoint you can hear just how smooth the action and trigger assembly is on this xp ranger 45 – with 36in barrel
this is the one i have on the way ,
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You disagree with someone you try to discredit them and their opinion and write paragraphs on it thereafter trying to nag us into agreement.
That is acting like a bitch.