The WORST thing an airgunner could do is…
Buy a chronograph. And here’s why.
I bought a .22 Marauder about 3 years ago and I thought it was the best air rifle that was ever made. Until recently I read about how you can tune it and such, so I decided to buy a Chrony. Shot a 50 shots string and I was like WTF? I goes from 600 fps up to 850 and down again. How the fuck can a rifle be accurate and zeroed properly with such a drastic change in fps??? In a short distance I guess it doesn’t matter, but anyway I got to work adjusting the Hammer Spring / Hammer Travel. So I had a lot of pumping to do…and it was killing me! So I decided to buy a carbon fiber tank. Almost $700!!!! Anyway, I got the more expensive 4500psi carbon fiber vs the standard scuba tanks (~$200) because 1. It holds a lot more air 2. filling to 3000psi or higher (I contemplate buying a cricket and need something to go to 300bars). So I tuned my marauder as best I could and the best thing I could do is
1. 883.1
2. 887.5
3. 889.4
4. 896.7
5. 894.8
6. 900.9
7. 899.1
8. 899.1
9. 902.1
10. 895.5
11. 893.3
12. 891.7
13. 887.6
14. 889.2
15. 879.7
16. 884.0
17. 874.1
18. 871.8
19. 868.9
20. 864.1
That’s with 10# hammer spring, HS 3.5 CW from full CCW, HT full CCW. 21 grains Baracuda.
So the best I could do with this rifle was a good 15-16 shot. So this rifle that I was thought was the best really wasn’t good at all…
I also got the TalonP and so far the best I could do was
1. 894.8 3000 psi
2. 900.1
3. 891.8
4. 891.3
5. 885.3
6. 885.9
7. 885.4
8. 874.9 dropping off
9. 869.2
10. Error 2200 psi
31 grain Baracudas. Power wheel setting at 3-1. Oh, btw there’s not a lot that you can tune for the airforce rifle. To me the only thing tunable is the power wheel. If you set it too high, you just get the maximum FPS then it goes down hill from there… SO ONCE YOU SETTLE ON PW SETTING, DO NOT CHANGE IT!!!! It’s at the optimum setting.
So, In summary, buying a chrony caused me to
1. Spend a lot of money and time tuning
2. Realize that my rifles sucks and need some type of regulator.
3. Probably buy a regulated rifle (probably a Cricket) and spend more money
All Replies
I tune my marauders to HAVE a bell curve.
600-850-600 is too drastic of a change. I tune mine for a 50fps spread… On my .25 cal mrod, it starts at 830, goes up to 880, then back down to 830… All in 32 shots. Its the most accurate gun i own.
I dont remember the spread/numbers for my .22..i think its about 800-850-800 for 65 shots.
You get more shots with a bell curve tune, but not maximum power from the gun.
One of my condors goes from 880-950-880 for 70 shots. The higher pressure i fill the tank, the lower the starting fps is, but it keeps the same curve. Pointless to go from 800 to 950 and back to 800, so i start with a lower fill pressure too optimize the curve.
Real air gunners have chronys, and use them (the ones who can afford them anyway).
Its one of the best pieces of equipment you can buy, although it makes you have to do a lot more thinking, planning, and learning. It changes the hobby drastically….but once you learn the stuff you will be able to tune a gun like its your job.
Tcmalker,
Don’t listen to these guys! You don’t want to fool with the top hat, or even a regulator! PM me and I will send you my address and you can send me the Talon P and the chrony and all of your frustrations will be gone and you can return to your previous ignorant bliss!
Before you go the regulator route, try the top hat and the o ring thing. You might want to go with the 22CI tank though.
The chrony is also a great tool for finding the proper fill pressure. My Talon SS with a high flow valve has a fill pressure of 1800PSI. 😀 I also get tired of trying to count my shots.
With a little patience, you can do wonders with these things.
don’t be afraid of that Top hat! 😯
There are two tiny allen screws that lock it down on the valve stem. Once tthey are loose, Turning the top Hat in towards the bottle will lessen the amount of air used. While turning it out away from the bottle will increase the air used.
Now here is the strange, but good part. More air used, doesn’t always mean mean a faster pellet. Different bbl. lengths, and different pellets use air at different rates.a light pellet can be well clear of the barrel while the gun is still belching air! This gives a louder report, and heavier air consumption at the same time. Two things we don’t want.
turning in the top hat until the desired fps drops, and then backing off will give good results. You will want to do this with EVERY Pellet your gun likes, and you want to use in it.
The power wheel only sets how hard the hammer hits the valve. This will change the air out up to a point, but not like the top hat. This is why I said the power wheel is for very fine adjustments only. Yes, you can use it to get very lw velocity, but at the same time, a too light of a hit will cause the hammer to drag. Giving inconsistent shits, and therefore, inconsistent velocities.
YOu want to use the power wheel to preload the hammer just enough to get consistent strikes to the breach. No more, no less. This is where a Chrony comes in. If you don’t use a chrony, there is no way to know where the hammer is dragging or chattering due to too little hit to get consistent shots.
Also, the higher the pressure in most bottles, the harder the hammer has to hit to prevent what is called valve lock. this is when the hammer strike is not strong enough to open the valve at higher pressures. This causes a slow shot.
Now this can be a good thing if used corrrectly. As a well tuned gun will start at a low velocity, then climb to its peak, and then go back down as the pressure lessens. This is what is calle a Bell-Curve, and can just about double your usefull shot count. 😉
Then there is the problem with hammer bounce. this is when the hammer hits the breach, opening the valve, recoils and hits again. It releases air a second and possibley a third time. You won’t feel it, and wont hear it if not use to it. It expells air well after the pellet has left the barrel. This results in a very poor shot count, as you are using air at a much higher rate. This is where the lower power setting comes in even when wanting higher veliocity. And is why you want to use the TOP HAT before the power wheel. This is also where the rubber “O” ring comes in. It keeps the valve from rebounding so hard into the breach, which in turn, rebounds into the hammer, which then travels up the frame, compresses the spring, and is sent back into the breach agai.
Now, it is late, and I just finished casting a few hundred AirGun Bullet. I’m fried!
Search is your friend. The reason WE (I) am blunt, is that we have answered these same questions hundreds of times. Only to be ask again in a few days. We aren’t typist. It is all posted under search for anyone to read.
But I do realise that you have to know what to ask to do a search. And your statement that you won’t touch the Top Hat lead me to believe you didn’t know enough about the gun to ask an educhatd question. Not putting you down as we have all been there.
Now it is up to you to learn what we have to teach. And starting out arrogant and stuborn and telling us you WON’T even try, is a good reason for us to shrugg our shoulders and move on. It’s up to you. We are happy to help. But only if you are willing to listen. 😉
On a side note, there is a cure for the problems you were having with the M-Rod as well. Different cure, but same results to tuneing. We know how to do that too! 😉 😀
They are after all, both PCP’S 😆
KnifeMaker
I honestly wouldn’t bother with a reg on these rifles. If tuned properly, you can get a lot of shots/fill. I don’t own a TalonP but I’ve worked on any other Airforce rifle(being the service agent for Airforce rifles in South Africa) and the tunability is endless.
If you want to get the max shot count out of your Airforce rifle/pistol, you’re going to have set the tophat. Once you start digging, you’ll notice that you own one of the most tuable-read AWESOME rifles available.
Once set up properly, an Airforce rifle can holds it ground against rifles 3x the price.
Have a look at my Youtube channel, all this was done with my Condor .22.
http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCPmx4CsVCeUKnxjNLsf_-rA/about
good advices
I’m not going to mess with the top hat, but I will try that o-ring behind the tophat thing.
But I’m also looking at a regulator, specficially jdsairman’s. From my research, I’m going to either need an Airforce CO2 adapter ($100!!!) or an ETACREG. I already have a 22ci tank, but might consider 48ci. Any suggestion on which adapter I should get? I’m wary of the Airforce adapter since I heard they fail often. Any other options beside those two?
I have an unregulated rifle that gets over 100 shots with less than 25fps of velocity change through the spread… Shoots from 1600-1300psi. And since it doesn’t have a regulator it’s one less part to fuck up when you need it most.
By turning your top in toward the bottle collar you will reduce the quantity of air that is let out of the bottle. If you put an o-ring behind the tophat you can also change the way the air is metered. There are other issues with the AF rifles that will never be solved with a regulator. The reg is just one part in a series of parts that make an airgun shoot and they are available for the AF stuff. You will still be tinkering with it to get it all set up the way you want. 😉
Ever reload? 😆 😆 😆
😉
Mike was blunt but he told the truth. That’s how we Texans are. Even though i live in Cali…..lol!
But the Chrony with ANY type gun is a must have. In order to understand ballistics in the overall grand scheme of things, you have to know your FPS and pellets BC. This, is the BEGINNING of a long journey. To do this, you HAVE to get a Chrony.
This is also the reason why most people who shoot at 40 yards ONLY think EVERY AIRGUN IS SO FUCKING GREAT and doesn’t need to be touched. Start pushing your gun out to 75 yards without knowing how consistent it is and B Y E…B Y E….happiness…….lol!
Your off to a great start though and welcome to the madness called “TUNING AIRGUNS”. There is just so much info hear on the tag about tuning and other forums. You’ve got a lot of research and playin to do.
Have fun, relax and enjoy the adventure.
ok so I admit I might have a lot to learn, so please educate me!
You mention tuning tophat, valve stem, adjustment nut…But all those “tuning” you mentioned would only increase FPS, or am I wrong? It doesn’t fix the problem Airforce rifle has, which is that it is UNREGULATED!
Power wheel setting at 3-1. Oh, btw there’s not a lot that you can tune for the airforce rifle. To me the only thing tunable is the power wheel. If you set it too high, you just get the maximum FPS then it goes down hill from there… SO ONCE YOU SETTLE ON PW SETTING, DO NOT CHANGE IT!!!! It’s at the optimum setting.
😆 😆 😆 You’ve got a lot to learn there Partner!
The power wheel is only for fine tuning. The major tuning comes from the Top Hat adjustment. And this only scratches the surface.
Things such as polishing the top hat. Porting and polishing the valve stem, Porting and polishing the adjustment nut in the bottle. Changing out the Top Hat, for a better one such as Tonys changeable insert top hat goes a Long Way.
Polishing the tube (inside of frame) where the spring rides. Better “O” rings in the breach.
To be honest yet blunt, you havent tuned anything. All you have done so far is play with the dial like a kid with an older TV. ( power wheel). Which is damed near useless. Hell, the UK versions don’t even have one! 😆
There is a “LOT” to learn here on the TAG, It just takes a bit of digging! 😉
This Ain’t no stink’n Radio. Can’t just turn the dial and get top results! 😉 😆 😆
Knife
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interesting reads…
so from what Knife is saying, I draw a conclusion that I, nor anybody else, shouldn’t buy a one piece top hat (as offered by Tony and others) since those are not adjustable and therefore not tunable. And please don’t try to say there’s inserts for that. I wouldn’t call that tuning. Is that what you’re saying? Are you advising against a one piece top hat?
As for the bell curve of 70fps difference for Woody’s condor, I believe that’s too much! I don’t know exactly how much POI change is, so if you know please tell us.