Wayne and DonG’s Big Adventure….
Waynejitsu had some work done by DonG on his Talon SS. He paid a lot of money for it and when he got his gun back it did not work. I took pity on him and offered to take a look at what was done.
So here we go.
When the gun arrived the first thing I noticed is the bolt and hammer were galling, Rubbing, against the frame. This created a lot of friction, in addition I noticed the bolt took a couple of pounds of pressure to slid on the barrel. All of this friction adds up is not good. It requires a lot more force to move these parts then necessary.
For example the bolt should move like glass on the barrel, not with significant friction. The body of the hammer should not contact the frame ever and should only ride on the delrin bushings.
The hammer is a total misguided mess. It is made of aluminum. The cuts are rough and inaccurate and to make it heavy enough the body was left thicker then it should be which causes friction. The stock hammer while not pretty is perfect for its job. It is heavy and thin and does not cause any problems. In this case the stock hammer should have remained.
The BOLT is an attempt of a knock off of bolts others have made in the past. A look at the workmanship shows some attempts at creating something nice but it has a few short falls. One thing is the hammer slap mod shows a lot of glue remnants and the Oring is coming out of the slot. The waist has 2 diameters which is a sign of careless workmanship. The orings are far to tight and require a significant amount of force to slide on the barrel. It should move smoothly with little force. There are many signs of wear and friction on the bolt and this is because aluminum “Galls” against aluminum and for this reason Airforce uses a Delrin bolt which does not gall or cause significant friction. The bolt is a mess and I reccomend a return to the stock Bolt as well as the stock hammer.
Now for the valve……WTF?
First thing I notice is there is no spanner holes or notches in the valve top under the top hat…curious. I take the valve off and this is what I found.
Now some might be getting all excited to see this thinking is is some kind of regulation device…WRONG….this is nothing more then a chamber which would hold the same PSI as the air in the tank. It would serve no purpose other then to decrease airflow to the valve. The threads are very rough and full of aluminum dust. The OD has a step in it and goes back to the quality of work. This is an ill conceived attempt at regualtion and goes to show how bad information really can make somebody have a bad day.
That’s all for now. Wayne my recommendation is to return to a stock hammer, stock delrin bolt and stock spring retainer bolt.
I will look further at it later.
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Thats because dong isn’t worth his weight in mongoose shit.
1- Thanks everyone for your help:)
2- I wanted to “help” someone out (dong) who was just starting out. I know how hard it can be to get started up in a business.
He was a “good talker” and seemed to know what he was talking about.
At the time, I had a good job and some extra cash and wanted a tuned Talon.
I was told that he could do a better job than the known tuners for less $$$.
So I thought, ok, he is new, but at one time, everyone is new.
I was shown a gun of beautiful work and thought, that would definately be worth the cost.
I LATER found out the gun I looked at was actually a gun dong had sent to Talon Tunes and Tony is the one that actually did the work on the “front gun”.
I know nothing about the AF guns, even the pics posted on this thread, I have no idea what I am actually looking at, so yes, in that area I am an easy mark.
I am by nature trusting, so my new Talon was ruined by dong.
I paid for a new gun, then paid 2x the amount of the gun to have someone trash it.
Yes, lesson learned.
I am no longer working and do not have what it would take to send the gun to a REAL Tuner.
That is where you guy’s stepped in to help out.
I could not believe that people I do not know (other than a few posts on a forum) were stepping in to help right a wrong. It is incredible to say the least and I do not know what to do or say other than THANK YOU!!!
I appreciate all of the help and Adam is fixing the gun so it will shoot. I cringe at the $$$ I will have in this gun.
All I can say is-
1- Lesson learned…, the hard way and
2- THANKS GUYS!!!
I know about the Mr. Condor thing with Mr. Gaywad and all, but I thought you had found evidence of Dong calling himself Mr. Condor in correspondence to BB, Tom or whatever else he calls himself these days.
It’s an Old Joke. Mr Condor is a person who Tom Gaylord claims ruined his AF gun and brought it to AF to fix. The problem is none of us ever heard of Mr. Condor which was his supposed forum name.
Mr. Gaylord loves to be dramatic.
Whoa! Is MrCondor Dong or is this just speculation?
I think sniper has hit the nail on the head.
He WAS,to all intents and purposes, an ok guy until he started fucking up, and got into trouble…
Then he finds himself with several guns to sort out after he messes them up. Then refund requests… He knew his rep’ was going down the drain so he split…
I think the guys here who were ripped off shouldn’t feel they have been suckered. I know I would of felt happy sending my gun to him based on his long good standing here, good rep’ and positive feedback from other members….
EVERYONE thought he was ok until the shit started hitting the fan, then we lost shrpshter28 and discovered a scumbag called don g .
DonG = Tom Gaylords infamous “MrCondor” 😯
I was one of the first to send my gun into Dong for a tune-up and a new hammer replacement. I purchased a 70gr. hammer from him and the workmanship appeared to be top-notch. This was way back in September of 08. Back then, he was easy to get ahold of– responded to PM’s usually within the hour, no matter what time of day. I probably asked him 30 questions about his work and specifics of the job I wanted done. He came across as a good guy and I trusted him enough to send him my complete gun (tank, frame, laser sight, wokbutt, bipod and scope) for the work to be done. When the job took a little longer than expected, Don sent me a free breech knob as retribution. Overall, he seemed like a stand-up guy, but I guess they always do when they want your money…
The deal was that I would send don the gun, he would complete the work and send it back to me and all I had to do was pay for shipping. If I liked the work he did, I would send him a check for $150. This paid for a tune, valve polish, adjustable trigger job, hammer slap mod, and a few other odds and ends. I received frequent updates from don on his progression. When I got the gun back from him, I was thoroughly impressed with the huge improvements he had made to my gun. Additionally, when he sent the gun back to me he also sent a silencer with it for me to try free of charge. I loved the complete package so much that I wrote a check to Don for $305 the very same night I received the gun. I sent the check out the following week, fully excited about my new purchase.
At this point, as per our agreement, I posted on TAG a praiseworthy critique of Dong’s work. I admit, this was probably not the best of ideas, but as somebody else said, hindsight is 20/20. Fast forward a few weeks, and the gun begins firing every time the safety is disengaged. I contact don, who agrees to make the necessary repairs and to pay for shipping one-way. Fortunately, and probably the only wise decision I make in this whole flustercuck, I refrain from sending Don anything but the frame of the gun. That is, I kept my silencer, scope and mounts, bipod, laser, tank and wokbutt. The gun frame goes out to AL in early February. Communication with Don was still on par… He tells me something has gone awry with the trigger sears and he must order a new part from AF and that the gun will be returned to me in five days. After this message, Don became increasingly difficult to get ahold of. PM’s went unread and phone calls and emails went unreturned. Finally, I get ahold of Don via phone and he tells me that my gun is sitting in a box in the front seat of his car, waiting to be taken to the post office. Clearly, this was a blatant lie as I have heard nothing from don since then and still have no gun.
In all, I paid $355 to don for services/parts rendered on my gun which is hefty but is nothing near what a lot of members have lost. For a time, I was absolutely impressed with don and the transformation he was able to make to my gun. So I recommended him to other TAG members and I do apologize for this. However, one must remember that Don did NOT run a legitimate business and there were no warranties or records involved in transactions between Don and members. It was a dice roll at best to trust the integrity of a complete stranger. I realize that he was a friend to some on the board, a frequent poster with good advice, and an apparently knowledgeable machinist/gunsmith. Therefore, it’s no surprise that many of you defended Don and his values in the midst of this calamity. But I remind those people that none of you actually knew Don the man; you knew shrpshotr28. The man behind the alias duped a lot of people out of a lot of money. I guess that’s just the inherent risk you take when doing business over the Internet.
So what happened to Don? I think he became inundated with requests for tune-ups and the quality of his work dropped off drastically under mounting pressure to tune too many guns. When people began requesting money be refunded, don probably decided that the best decision was to split. What can be gained from this? For me personally, I will not be dealing with individuals running illegitimate businesses over the internet. It’s too damn risky.
I translated it into American 😛
Quite right WOK, not much use at all for someone looking for maximum power, especially if you had the problems of friction you described of the other parts. I could understand a gun owner being cheesed off after paying good money for a poor job, for somebody looking for less power. This cylinder if properly made would be very useful.
Both ideas do the same job.
For low power it is useful. In this case, a full power Talon SS it was a bad idea.
Wayne — You are not the only one to get ripped off on the O-ring Breech from Don. I bought one awhile back and never put it on because I did not want to screw up my TalonSS. When I finally tried the O-ring Breech that I bought from Don in my TalonSS and spent 2 weeks with a broken gun and I order an all new trigger group( thought I screwed up the sear or another trigger part). Then I tried the old breech and the gun worked fine. So, I am also one of the dumbass that got ripped off too from Don.
Last words, I do like the O-ring Breech on my Condor that Tony did because I like the sound of the THUD over the PING. However, you do have to turn the power up to get the same power out of the gun.
The Great Size —– Fatman
Edit: Because Tony PM’ed thinking I was talking about the Condor he sold me had soming wrong with it. Just to set record straight the Condor I got from Talon Tunes works great. I only wanted to let people know why I took so long in putting the (Don O-ring Breech) in my TalonSS.
Apart from the obvious machining issues with the parts this small cylinder is actually quite a good idea because on a relativly low power air gun theres no need for large volumes of air to be available at the valve, a small cylinder such as this will actually make the gun quieter around the bottle and valve as it prevents the shock wave of air in the cylinder which is part of the tank ping which is often a problem for some people. this type of internal cylinder is used by Air arms and is called a ‘shot pot’. Jim Hogan of Logan fame, uses a set up which he calls a ‘damper valve’.
Both ideas do the same job.
As classic an example of a catch-22 since the original. From where would a smith obtain his “body of work” if everyone refrained from commissioning work until there was a body of work?
I have many hobbies, eating, flyfishing, bamboo rodmaking, fly tying, Paintball, eating, Paintball marker development, inventing various machines for my hobbies, airgunning, eating, airgunsmithing, metal work, woodworking, eating etc.
The way the “New Guy” gets started is to make items for himself and to use them on his own guns to test them and fine tune them. He then shows them off and takes a couple of orders for friends and a few daring souls. When they are satisfied he can then use them as a reference for his work. He starts off with good deal prices and as his demand increases and as his reputation improves his prices start to reflect that.
I am all for giving a “New Guy” a chance but I would not dive in head first and order the “Works”. And the New Guy should know his limitations and not promise what he can not deliver.
Pretty much what I said. 🙂
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We all want to give the new guy a chance…. Happens all the time.
In fact, I was one of Anthony’s first paying customers for a tune. Got a TalonSS tuned by him years back. The difference? Anthony had been around the forum for years before taking work. I’ll get the new guys to do a brake or bolt or something of that nature, but with regards to tuning a gun…. nah…
There are a select few folks that I’ll pay to work on any of my guns.
I’m glad it wasnt one of my guns. Alabama aint too far for me to drive for one of mine…. 😯