Wayne and DonG’s Big Adventure….

Waynejitsu had some work done by DonG on his Talon SS. He paid a lot of money for it and when he got his gun back it did not work. I took pity on him and offered to take a look at what was done.

So here we go.

When the gun arrived the first thing I noticed is the bolt and hammer were galling, Rubbing, against the frame. This created a lot of friction, in addition I noticed the bolt took a couple of pounds of pressure to slid on the barrel. All of this friction adds up is not good. It requires a lot more force to move these parts then necessary.

For example the bolt should move like glass on the barrel, not with significant friction. The body of the hammer should not contact the frame ever and should only ride on the delrin bushings.

The hammer is a total misguided mess. It is made of aluminum. The cuts are rough and inaccurate and to make it heavy enough the body was left thicker then it should be which causes friction. The stock hammer while not pretty is perfect for its job. It is heavy and thin and does not cause any problems. In this case the stock hammer should have remained.

The BOLT is an attempt of a knock off of bolts others have made in the past. A look at the workmanship shows some attempts at creating something nice but it has a few short falls. One thing is the hammer slap mod shows a lot of glue remnants and the Oring is coming out of the slot. The waist has 2 diameters which is a sign of careless workmanship. The orings are far to tight and require a significant amount of force to slide on the barrel. It should move smoothly with little force. There are many signs of wear and friction on the bolt and this is because aluminum “Galls” against aluminum and for this reason Airforce uses a Delrin bolt which does not gall or cause significant friction. The bolt is a mess and I reccomend a return to the stock Bolt as well as the stock hammer.

Now for the valve……WTF?

First thing I notice is there is no spanner holes or notches in the valve top under the top hat…curious. I take the valve off and this is what I found.

Now some might be getting all excited to see this thinking is is some kind of regulation device…WRONG….this is nothing more then a chamber which would hold the same PSI as the air in the tank. It would serve no purpose other then to decrease airflow to the valve. The threads are very rough and full of aluminum dust. The OD has a step in it and goes back to the quality of work. This is an ill conceived attempt at regualtion and goes to show how bad information really can make somebody have a bad day.

That’s all for now. Wayne my recommendation is to return to a stock hammer, stock delrin bolt and stock spring retainer bolt.

I will look further at it later.

walkonking

Participant

May 30, 2009 at 9:00 pm

quote Langnasen:

quote :

“New”airgunsmiths need to put in their time and have a body of work as well as satisfied customers before people should trust them with so much $$ and their guns.

As classic an example of a catch-22 since the original. From where would a smith obtain his “body of work” if everyone refrained from commissioning work until there was a body of work?

I have many hobbies, eating, flyfishing, bamboo rodmaking, fly tying, Paintball, eating, Paintball marker development, inventing various machines for my hobbies, airgunning, eating, airgunsmithing, metal work, woodworking, eating etc.

The way the “New Guy” gets started is to make items for himself and to use them on his own guns to test them and fine tune them. He then shows them off and takes a couple of orders for friends and a few daring souls. When they are satisfied he can then use them as a reference for his work. He starts off with good deal prices and as his demand increases and as his reputation improves his prices start to reflect that.

I am all for giving a “New Guy” a chance but I would not dive in head first and order the “Works”. And the New Guy should know his limitations and not promise what he can not deliver.

teflontron

May 30, 2009 at 8:15 pm

^ I agree with Nick Cotton.

langnasen

May 30, 2009 at 7:46 pm

Typically a smith gets his first commissions by offering significantly cheaper rates. When his clients state their satisfaction the ball starts rolling until prices are market-rate and bingo, new smith established.

Dong was on that track, except he was shite and decided to rip people off instead of accepting his failure and doing the right thing.

Given the community we have here it’s entirely feasible for people to send in an example of whatever product it is they’re touting and have it evaluated by a trusted and objective member. And then for people to be patient and not send money or kit for a job until the last client reports a satisfactory conclusion to his particular order.

And last, but not least, a prospective smith needs to remember that each job needs to be done to a standard he’d expect for his own pride and joy. It’s not flipping burgers at Maccie-Ds.

Dong had neither the ability, attitude or integrity required, but hind-sight is 20-20, as always.

knifemaker

May 30, 2009 at 6:34 pm

I’m stunned! I really can’t believe my eyes!

I know I’m a prick about workmanship, but there is no excuse for this what so ever.

🙁

Mike

May 30, 2009 at 6:21 pm

quote Buzzcat:

This thread will undoubtedly go epic, so I’ll ask right now… has anyone that’s been ripped off gained any ground with any legal/LE pursuits against DonG?

We need to hear what’s up, otherwise we’re just facking around with the dead ‘possum we found on the side of the road. Any discussion about his work (or lack thereof) is pointless unless the offended ruck up and pursue justice.

Well actually there is a point to this even if DonG never makes good.

Let this be a lesson not to jump on the “New Airgunsmith” bandwagon. It was well known here that Don was new to the machining and had no experience in tuning airguns. Looking at his personal gun and work he posted here it was obvious he was on a steep learning curve with his metal work.

But because he was available and a little less $$ then some other airgunsmiths people jumped on his bandwagon and started recommending him full heartily and that caused others to send in their guns and now the are out hundreds of dollars for sloppy work, one guy got took for $1000 for a gun and some did not get their guns back. Irony is some that got “Took” were the ones spreading the word on all the airgun forum how great DonG was. Now they are out their guns and $$.

So here is the Moral of the story. When new guy starts up the airgunsmith business he needs to have experience and build a reputation over time to prove his worth. Nobody should be sending the “New Guy” hundreds or thousands of $$ to work on their guns. The reality is “New”airgunsmiths need to put in their time and have a body of work as well as satisfied customers before people should trust them with so much $$ and their guns.

I could give a rats ass who you send your gun to but currently the only people I would send my Airforce gun to have work done on it are Mac1, J3Magnum Jim Ayers, Tony at talon tunes and Leemak.

Another point I might bring up about airgunsmiths is when you place an order be sure to get a WRITTEN ESTIMATE OF TIME it will take to complete the project.

May 30, 2009 at 5:57 pm

That hammer-slap mod is a load of bollocks, regardless of how well it’s done. Firstly there’s no way it can be made to stick indefinitely, but more importantly it considerably reduces FPS due to the amount of energy it absorbs. I tried a small o-ring behind a tophat, and I lost more FPS to it than I gained by raising the tophat.