Why bother with .25
I cannot reason with something…why is the .25 caliber more popular as a mod than the .22?
I thought about it for quite a while and heres what i think: If you want more “stopping power” for between the calibers….22 or .25 ???????
I want power, so id like a bigger caliber, but isnt it the same if i use the original .22 barrel and just go for heavier bullets?
The smaller diameter of the bullets makes less wind resistance with the same weight, it also penetrates better into due to size, it tumbles more once it hits and hence makes more damage. Or so i see it….
Isnt this why the AA went from 7.62 to 5.56 caliber?
I still want the .25 caiber one day, but for now it seems to me that the .22 condor with a bulet of the same weight than the .25 bullet will do the same job better – its faster, smaller bullet means less trouble in wind.
Or is the air flow “bigger”? Is the valve on the .25 also different than on the .22?
Id love to hear from you guys cause for me it does not make sence 🙄
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Thanks!
Mike
Would that be the .25 or the .62? 😆
If you shoot in windy Texas and/or have the option to shoot at long range, go big! It’s kinda like “go ugly early and avoid the rush”, you’re going to end up with a .25 so just do it up front! Besides, fun shooting at things that blow apart is more fun the bigger the caliber…
my next will either be a .457 daq or a fully modded tt .25 condor
The answers are; usually and maybe. 😉
Heavier and slower usually translate to more drop but not always. If the BC of the heavier and slower round is sufficiently higher than the smaller, faster round, the drop at a given range may be less. Recoil induced barrel lift may offset some drop as well in the larger calibers.
For hunting, you just might have to get better at estimating range if your trajectory is steeper. But, if you get the right tool for the right job, and you sight-in at the proper range and learn your gun a bit; you probably don’t have to have a calibrated eyeball.
For instance; if you get the DAQ .457 you’re going to hunt bigger game than squirrels or prarie dogs. A .457 is for hunting hogs or deer and is certainly more than enough for coons, groundhogs, nutria etc. If you buy a gun for deer hunting, you’re generally not looking at long ranges. In the East you’re probably looking at shots less than 50 yards most of the time. The gun can be sighted in at 100 yards and hit the kill zone at that range with plenty of power but unless you’re hunting in a spot with routinely long range shots, that would be a mistake. Sight that gun in at somewhere between 30 and 50 yards and then learn the hold-over / hold-under for the rest of your likely shots and you’ll be fine. The rise and drop will be pretty small over the range you’re likely to use.
Now, if you get a fully mod’d TT .25 you’re going in a totally different direction. That gun is going to be quiet, accurate and deliver the power that Tony promised before you paid. It won’t be a deer gun though, it will be suitable for squirrels on up to hogs at a reasonable range. (Yes, it’s possible to kill a deer with a .25 Condor but it is the wrong tool and any kill would just be a novelty.) It will also be quiet enough to use where the DAQ cannon would get you arrested. The comparison between the DAQ and the TT Condor isn’t fair because the intent of the guns is so different.
Assuming you go with a Condor, the comparison is really between a .22 and a .25. You can probably make any given Condor shoot a .22 faster than a heavier .25 if you’re just switching barrels. But, the .25 can be made to shoot pretty fast and the .22 may be shooting too fast to be accurate, so what’s the point? The .25 Kodiak has a great BC for a diablo style pellet and the Condor can drive it to speeds that are as fast as you want a diablo pellet to go. Given a fully modified gun, you’re not really trading slower heavier .25 against a faster flatter shooting .22 because to be faster, the .22 has to go too fast! That means even at long range, you’re looking at similar drop (and probably less with .25 Kodiaks) and no need to be better at estimating range than a .22 shooter. So, if you’re spending the money on a professionally tuned Condor and wondering if you want .22 or .25; you’re really only debating the cost of the .25 barrel and the difference in cost of the ammo. The .25 covers the .22 in accuracy and power with equal or better performance. I don’t shoot .25 Kodiaks so I don’t know the cost break-down but I have heard of availability issues. Other than that, if the gun is a fully modified TT Condor, the choice of .25 is pretty clear to me. I have not had to figure in the cost delta though. I would add that going to .25 gives you some options not available to the .22 though. Namely the Surefire heavy slugs! (Ya’ll didn’t think I would type this much without plugging the boys did you?)
Sounds like a real winner for Windy Texas there Jerry! 😀
Thanks!
Mike
I don’t know much but when you go with a heavier, slower projectile don’t you have more drop to compensate for? That wouldn’t matter for paper but in hunting wouldn’t that mean needing to estimate range more accurately? On the other hand the lighter round would slow down faster so idk just thinking. I would like to know more about this.
my next will either be a .457 daq or a fully modded tt .25 condor
The .25 will certainly give you an edge. Even shooting Kodiaks you’ll be shooting a higher BC pellet. Shooting the heavy slugs will be an even greater advantage as you’ll have less correction to make for wind even though the slugs are slower. Less drift means lower errors if you don’t correct perfectly. For example: if you’re shooting a .22 that drifts 14″ over 100 yards in a 10 MPH cross wind and you only compensate for half the required offset, you’ll miss by 7″. Take the same shot with a slug that only drifts 7″ in the same conditions and if you only make half the required correction again, you’ll have only missed by 3.5″…
The last couple times I’ve been out shooting at 100 yards plus it has been breezy. I took the Monsoon .22 out and groups at 100 yards were just out of the question. It is an excellent rifle and I managed a nice 1/2″ group at 50 yards during a lull but 100 yards groups were just not going to happen. I also had my .32 with me and while 100 yard groups were nowhere near my best, they were still averaging less than 1.5″. The Monsoon was doing about 4-5″ best in the same conditions. The .32 can and has shot cloverleafs at 100 yards and the Monsoon is capable of under an inch that far out. The difference is that when the wind blows even a little, the light .22 is disturbed more than the heavy slow to slow down .32 slug. I was also shooting a .62 and that slug didn’t even notice the wind as far as I could tell!
I do a lot of what i would think of as long range shooting. Both for enjoyment and hunting. I am hopeing the .25 will give me a bit of an edge at 100-125 yards. 😀
Mike
Exactly right! The .25 can transfer more energy and it will just blow through a small critter like a rabbit just like a .22 will. If you already have a .22 that is effective on your chosen target and maybe already an over-match, there is no reason to go to a larger caliber.
Now, if you want to extend your effective range you may want to move to .25 from .22. The larger caliber allows the use of a projectile heavier than what the .22 can stabalize. That means that you can take advantage of the fancy valves and power available to send a bigger chunk of lead further down range and still have more than enough terminal performance.
Or, you might want to hunt something bigger than rabbits and desire greater power for that purpose.
If you’re not hunting you might just enjoy destroying reactive targets with more power, I know I do.
I don’t think any caliber has an accuracy advantage. The advantage of bigger caliber lies in power. If you have an accurate .177 that fills your wants for airgun shooting there is no reason to move up just for some potential that you’ll never use.
Doesn’t work on rabbits, the pellets go through them the same as .22s and once they’re done dancing they’re off down the bunker.
Which means heart or head shots. And a .22 will do them in with those just as well as a .25.
I suppose .25s are really meant for bigger game.
Unless I missed it, the thing that makes the .25 superior in my mind is the ability to transfer more energy into the target.
A gun with accuracy issues is bad news, but a good gun will shoot the eye out of a rabbit at 40 yrds.
I thought about it for quite a while and heres what i think: If you want more “stopping power” for between the calibers….22 or .25 ???????
I want power, so id like a bigger caliber, but isnt it the same if i use the original .22 barrel and just go for heavier bullets?
The smaller diameter of the bullets makes less wind resistance with the same weight, it also penetrates better into due to size, it tumbles more once it hits and hence makes more damage. Or so i see it….
Isnt this why the AA went from 7.62 to 5.56 caliber?
The military went to the m-16 for several reasons. A soldier could carry MANY more rounds of 5.56, and at the time, the doctorine was to teach spray and pray to the troops. Secondly, the weapons platform designed for the new .223 or 5.56 eas much smaller and lighter. And they were cheaper to manufaacture. They were vastly easier to train on the new low recoil round, as most recruits have no firearms experience then or now . It’s a anti-gun world now.
No, they don’t penetrate better. The 7.62 is once again vastly superior in penetration. Especially body armor. Its range is easily twice as far in real conditions. And the tumbeling was by accident. It resulted from the wrong twist being used in the early M-16 which under stabelized the rounds. In later guns, an new bullet design was used that would often break at the crimping band to get back some of the dammaging effect lost when the barrel problem was corrected. A sneeky way to get expanding bullet performance, where it is illegal to use expanding projectiles.
And lastly, it isn’t the wind resistance in and of its self that gives a round its ranging capabilities, but it Ballistic Coeficient. In the .7.62 wins hands down.
Mike
more easily I still want the .25 caiber one day, but for now it seems to me that the .22 condor with a bulet of the same weight than the .25 bullet will do the same job better – its faster, smaller bullet means less trouble in wind.
Or is the air flow “bigger”? Is the valve on the .25 also different than on the .22?
Id love to hear from you guys cause for me it does not make sence 🙄
Pablo went to .25 for the “more stopping power” and I would likely have followed him, until he found that .25s were going through rabbits just like .22s were and the rabbits were still able to make it back to their bunkers before croaking. Plus he too was getting the accuracy issues. He’s back to .22 now and driving tacks again.
me and my shooting buddy upgraded our talons to .25 and heavier hammers, we both had the same exact problems, we was grouping anywhere from 3 to 6 inch groups at 30 yards best, we both put in over a thousand rounds hoping the barrel just needed breaking in, never got any better, cleaned the bores, polished the bores, still the same results, my friend swapped his 22 barrel back in, i myself had traded mine for another pcp, but was so disqusted with the money i just thrown away, i was going to sell my talon to recoup some of it back, then salvation, a guy knowing of the problems i was having with the barrel wanted to trade for his 22 condor barrel, thinking he could resolve the issues, well unfortunantly he was wrong and still cant hit the side of a barn, i on the other hand can now take out jackrabbits and other pest with 150+ yard shots, dont get me wrong, i do know for fact more weight= more fpe = more momentum to fly down range further and larger diamiter = more damage and faster bleed outs, im glad you guys that went 25 had good luck with yours and maybe the 2 barrels me and my friend ordered were made on a monday or at quitting time on friday lol who knows? but it was enough of a bad experience that i personally wont recommend anyone to do that conversion themselves, just send the rifle to whoever and let them deal with the headaches of getting it to shoot right, just my 2 cents worth
You .25 guys check this kill with a 19fpe 1.77cal.
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Thanks for the information. I believe there was a small miss communication because I didn’t explain my next gun choices. I know that both of my choices are for very different purposes. I plan on getting both of them in the near future it is just a matter of which one I get first. My point was that I prefer the heavier and larger rounds. This is because I like to push the limits of what a gun can do range wise when I am shooting at targets. I shoot targets almost exclusively and only take the odd pest when I catch them in the act of doing something bothersome at close range with my tss. Sorry for the confusion.