Condor high flow tank vs Talon tank
I thought this might be useful info.
Condor with Custom weighted hammer (Don’t know the weight) heavier than stock.
24″ barrel
Beeman Kodiak Extra Heavy pellets
Both tanks filled to 2,100psi
PW 7/0
Condor High flow tank /Talon stock tank
FPS
Low 1010 /823
High 1050 /835
Avg 1031 /829
ES 40.43 /11.58
SD 12.28 / 3.6
1 1050 /835
2 1043 /834
3 1041 /831
4 1039 /830
5 1031 /830
6 1020 /827
7 1028 /830
8 1026 /825
9 1021 /823
10 1010 /827
Talon Tank at 2,500 psi
FPS
Kodiak Extra Heavy/JSB Jumbo
877/940
I’ll do a 2,900psi fill tomorrow with a long shot string
Might not be as powerful but, the accuracy and the quietness
of the Condor with the Talon tank is what I was looking for….
The shots from the Talon tank were much tighter than the
Condor high flow.
Easy 5 shot one hole groups at 25yds with the Talon tank.
I’ll be trying the 65yd shot tomorrow.
It took 25 pump strokes to refill the Talon tank and 45
pump strokes to refill the High flow tank.
I am again impressed with this rifle…
All Replies
Didn’t realize how cheap these parts were…Thought it would be worth posting in case others wanted to do the same…..
These are email responses from AirForce
The hammer for the Condor and Talon are the same (spool shaped piece), p/n 50078 is $9.35ea. The Condor uses an extra striker weight, p/n 10097 at $5.25ea.
This is the ring and PW setting indicator screw that sit behind the hammer spring..
Thanks Jeff, I’ll send 50078 & 10097. Just to clarify, the collar/ring… do you need the white teflon o-rings-2ea? p/n 10141-$2.15. Or the neoprene flat o-ring? p/n 10142-$2.15. I’ll include the power level indicator screw.
2900 while I am at it….
We’ll see how it turns out…….
Here it is. I started on PW 0 for the first 12 shots and then adjusted to PW 7 and
started another string without refilling…Still erratic and still
no bell curve but, it seems more consistant with PW 7. The
SD is much lower on PW7… The hammer must just be too
heavy to allow for a bell curve….I have a Stock Condor
hammer and weight coming….I’ll try it with and without
the weight…..I may be selling a hammer soon….
2900psi /
PW 0 PW7
Low 888 / 869
High 948 / 918
Avg 919 / 898
ES 59.8 / 49.5
SD 19.81 / 12.36
1 929 / 898
2 948 / 914
3 912 / 916
4 939 / 918
5 935 / 908
6 905 / 892
7 929 / 894
8 928 / 902
9 895 / 903
10 927 / 887
11 892 / 894
12 888 / 897
/////13 / 890
/////14 / 894
/////15 / 896
/////16 / 869
/////17 / 883
That could clearly be the culprit as you stated in preventing you from getting that curve. Can’t wait to see how the shot string looks with a stock Condor Hammer in it.
Regards,
Tony
Sounds like a plan Tony…..May as well bring it all the way to
2900 while I am at it….
We’ll see how it turns out…….
Here it is. I started on PW 0 for the first 12 shots and then adjusted to PW 7 and
started another string without refilling…Still erratic and still
no bell curve but, it seems more consistant with PW 7. The
SD is much lower on PW7… The hammer must just be too
heavy to allow for a bell curve….I have a Stock Condor
hammer and weight coming….I’ll try it with and without
the weight…..I may be selling a hammer soon….
2900psi /
PW 0 / PW7
Low 888 / 869
High 948 / 918
Avg 919 / 898
ES 59.8 / 49.5
SD 19.81 / 12.36
1 929 / 898
2 948 / 914
3 912 / 916
4 939 / 918
5 935 / 908
6 905 / 892
7 929 / 894
8 928 / 902
9 895 / 903
10 927 / 887
11 892 / 894
12 888 / 897
/////13 / 890
/////14 / 894
/////15 / 896
/////16 / 869
/////17 / 883
Fill 2,600 psi
PW 2
Beeman Kodiaks
Low 830.9
High 910.2
Avg 874.0
ES 79.38
SD 21.91
1 901.1 / 16 875.2
2 910.2 / 17 878.3
3 884.2 / 18 868.5
4 909.0 / 19 879.4
5 874.3 / 20 857.8
6 903.9 / 21 871.3
7 902.0 / 22 871.4
8 898.0 / 23 865.0
9 887.0 / 24 861.5
10 890.9 / 25 841.9
11 868.0 / 26 846.5
12 897.1 / 27 861.5
13 889.0 / 28 856.3
14 890.4 / 29 835.5
15 867.1 / 30 830.9
/////////// 31 849.6
//////////// 32 845.0
a little more on the fill pressure, take it up to 2800psi and see what it does with that power wheel on 2.
My understanding, or lack there of, is that increasing the fill pressure based on the results you posted would yield a situation where the hammer is hitting the valve that has more pressure, yielding soft shots but as you go through the shot string, the hammer is overcoming more and more of that pressure, hence the rise on the power curve and then falling back down as the pressure drops past a point…
What you posted above seems, and somebody correct me if I’m wrong and got egg on my face as it won’t be the first time, that the hammer is cracking that valve open with ease, and the resulting declining shot to shot string.
Regards,
Tony
Man now I am really baffled. What would you think is causing the erratic fps?….Does it need more hammer? Less/more fill psi? I don’t know which way to go with either……And oh yea…Still don’t see a bell curve….
Fill 2,600 psi
PW 2
Beeman Kodiaks
Low 830.9
High 910.2
Avg 874.0
ES 79.38
SD 21.91
1 901.1 / 16 875.2
2 910.2 / 17 878.3
3 884.2 / 18 868.5
4 909.0 / 19 879.4
5 874.3 / 20 857.8
6 903.9 / 21 871.3
7 902.0 / 22 871.4
8 898.0 / 23 865.0
9 887.0 / 24 861.5
10 890.9 / 25 841.9
11 868.0 / 26 846.5
12 897.1 / 27 861.5
13 889.0 / 28 856.3
14 890.4 / 29 835.5
15 867.1 / 30 830.9
/////////// 31 849.6
//////////// 32 845.0
I know the Air Force guns can require a bit of tinkering to make them shoot their best but the fact remains that they CAN SHOOT QUITE WELL!!! 😀
Looking forward to your reports as I enjoy reading the data you and others put out for all of us…
Regards,
Tony
I think you are right Tony….I had it set on 7. I will be moving things around and testing looking for that bell curve….It takes so much time and effort but well worth the effort once it is figured out….Thanks for the info..
And although the wind was blowing so bad I couldn’t get a group, the picture tells some of the story of the accuracy @ 65yds. It got hit twice by Eun Jin in almost the same spot..I couldn’t tell that I was nailing the clip until it flew off the pellet trap. I had forgot to adjust the scope for the increased psi..Needless to say the shots were flying a little high….
Eun Jin / Kodiak / JSB
829.0 / 922.4 / Error
834.5 / 917.2 / 985.0
855.0 / 904.4 / 978.8
836.6 / 897.2 / 973.3
822.3 / 886.6 / error
0000 / 887.4 / 949.5
0000 / 883.8 / 946.4
0000 / 875.7 / 936.2
0000 / 879.8 / 938.2
0000 / 869.6 / 944.3
0000 / 871.9 / 934.4
0000 / 883.7 / 950.7
0000 / 875.9 / 926.6
0000 / 862.7 / 932.2
0000 / 871.1 / 926.9
00000000000 / 923.9
Ending psi 2,100
This is with a Condor/aftermarket heavy hammer, right? What did you have the Power Wheel set to?
I know from talking with MAC1, by using the Talon Tank on a Condor wtih 24″(.22) barrel and the hammer set low like in the 0 – 2 range, it can get a bell curve with around 35 – 40 sweet spot shots…not positive if its with a Talon or Condor Hammer weight though…has something to do with not wasting air with increased valve duration…with the wheel set low, thus less hammer force, the valve opens and shuts quicker, minizing wasted air…
Regards,
Tony
Here are some #’s from the Talon tank 2,900psi fill. I alternated every shot so the Deviation for each pellet will not be accurate…I think that about all that can be sumized from these numbers is the FPS for each pellet from a 2,900psi fill and a shot count…..
And although the wind was blowing so bad I couldn’t get a group, the picture tells some of the story of the accuracy @ 65yds. It got hit twice by Eun Jin in almost the same spot..I couldn’t tell that I was nailing the clip until it flew off the pellet trap. I had forgot to adjust the scope for the increased psi..Needless to say the shots were flying a little high….
Eun Jin / Kodiak / JSB
829.0 / 922.4 / Error
834.5 / 917.2 / 985.0
855.0 / 904.4 / 978.8
836.6 / 897.2 / 973.3
822.3 / 886.6 / error
0000 / 887.4 / 949.5
0000 / 883.8 / 946.4
0000 / 875.7 / 936.2
0000 / 879.8 / 938.2
0000 / 869.6 / 944.3
0000 / 871.9 / 934.4
0000 / 883.7 / 950.7
0000 / 875.9 / 926.6
0000 / 862.7 / 932.2
0000 / 871.1 / 926.9
00000000000 / 923.9
Ending psi 2,100
Here are the fps for the Talon tank with
2,900psi fill..
Eun Jin/Beaman Kodiak/JSB Exact
856.6 / 930.3 / 989.7
I will do the 65yd group and fps string later but
the wind is really blowing so it might not be a
very good representation on the target…
I think I am going alternate pellets but I
am not sure which would be best…alternating
every shot or shoot 5 shots with each until I get
down to about 1,800psi….If you have any other
ideas while I am at it let me know….
Thanks Mamcrackin the talon tank shows better consistancy.
Condor with Custom weighted hammer (Don’t know the weight) heavier than stock.
24″ barrel
Beeman Kodiak Extra Heavy pellets
Both tanks filled to 2,100psi
PW 7/0
Condor High flow tank /Talon stock tank
FPS
Low 1010 /823
High 1050 /835
Avg 1031 /829
ES 40.43 /11.58
SD 12.28 / 3.6
1 1050 /835
2 1043 /834
3 1041 /831
4 1039 /830
5 1031 /830
6 1020 /827
7 1028 /830
8 1026 /825
9 1021 /823
10 1010 /827
Talon Tank at 2,500 psi
FPS
Kodiak Extra Heavy/JSB Jumbo
877/940
I’ll do a 2,900psi fill tomorrow with a long shot string
Might not be as powerful but, the accuracy and the quietness
of the Condor with the Talon tank is what I was looking for….
The shots from the Talon tank were much tighter than the
Condor high flow.
Easy 5 shot one hole groups at 25yds with the Talon tank.
I’ll be trying the 65yd shot tomorrow.
It took 25 pump strokes to refill the Talon tank and 45
pump strokes to refill the High flow tank.
I am again impressed with this rifle…
Great post and what a coincidence, I just got off the phone talking with MAC1 about Condors and using the High Flow versus Standard Talon Tank and it was similar numbers and related accuracy that he was advising me…1050fps with Kodiaks vs. 850fps with Kodiaks…
He tunnel tested a Condor(.22) with Talon Tank at LD’s with Kodiaks, apparently 1/2″ to 5/8″ is a doable group size for a rig set up accordingly…
Edit: Forgot to mention, the tunnel test was at a 51 yard target…
Regards,
Tony
Thanks for your post. I have both valves here, but have never compared the two. When I put the 18″ bbl. in, I swithced to the Condor valve. It does use a lot more air!
Mike
Here are some 5 shot groups at 2,500psi and 25yds.
The top and bottom are JSB Exact Jumbo
The middle is Beeman Kodiak Extra Heavy.
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Just grabbed the parts out of the mail box….New results…..
Well I found the bell curve but if you look close there are some really erratic
fps between shots that I can’t figure out how to fix…..
Would it be Top Hat adjustment? Maybe higher PW setting? I need help….
This is with a stock Condor hammer without the weight…
With the weight I could not see a bell curve at 2,800psi even with the PW on 0…
Let me know what you think.
PW 4 / Fill psi 2,800
Low 520 / High 866 / Avg 772 /ES 345 / SD 75.27 <—Not good
1 620
2 520
3 712
4 669
5 709
6 762
7 731
8 798
9 772
10 773
11 650
12 814
13 757
14 787
15 818
16 793
17 779
18 783
19 772
20 792
21 776
22 793
23 760
24 837
25 812
26 812
27 859
28 861
29 850
30 815
31 867
32 858
2nd string same fill
Low 809 / High 875 / Avg 839 / ES 66.05 / SD 15.19 <– Not bad
1 850
2 837
3 875
4 811
5 833
6 871
7 860
8 843
9 809
10 834
11 815
12 834
13 834
14 836
15 852
16 856
17 825
18 844
19 844
20 845
21 836
22 835
23 840
24 840
25 824
26 823
27 840
28 850
29 830
30 842
31 818
32 841
Ending pressure 2,100psi
3rd string / Shots
Low 769 / High 843 / Avg 803 / ES 74.78 / SD 21.14<– YUK!
1 829
2 836
3 830
4 843
5 818 <—-very consistant from here down but not much power…
6 812
7 818
8 838
9 834
10 818
11 812
12 813
13 814
14 810
15 808
16 803
17 796
18 799
19 799
20 800
21 793
22 794
23 789
24 787
25 784
26 785
27 777
28 778
29 778
30 772
31 772
32 768
Ending psi 1,750