EDgun Matador R3 versus Kalibr Cricket, my comparison….
Hi guys,
Warning for those who don’t like images:
This is going to be a thread with lots of graphics….. 😉
As promised, I’ll try to share with you my personal opinion and findings while comparing these beauties:
As some of you may know, I have two Matador Std R3s and I have one Cricket (with access to another one). All are cal.22……
My wait for my Matadors should be well documented on this very forum…..
The Crickets were a part of a group buy masterminded from Europe somewhere. The Crickets were shipped in parts to Norway and reassembled by my good blueprinting friend Egon Olsen. In the process he had to remove a “restrictor” screw that had been put into the guns before shipment. Most probably because of Power limitation rules at origin….
The Crickets arrived with no documents whatsoever. No instructions, – no nothing. I don’t think this is standard procedure though…..
The Cricket weighs less than the R3, – and is approx 5 cm shorter. Not a lot, – but overall it makes the Cricket even easier to handle than the already tiny R3….
The side by side comparison was done from my modest little shooting table at my summerhouse:
– and the shooting range is here, – with my target set up at 46mts:
Why 46 mts ? Simply because I could not pull my shooting stand further back right now. A huge tree has fallen during winter, and all the branches have taken up my space… 👿
First problem: How to fill the f…. Cricket ?
The fillprobe nut is so tiny that a standard foster coupling gasket will not seal. The entire probe is small, – and you fear you may break it while trying to tighten it:
The above (sorry for the image quality) is a comparison between ED’s, Cricket’s and Falcon’s fill probes. You can probably see what I mean….
As I could not make a standard Fostergasket fit, Egon had to make special gaskets that we fitted into the Foster coupling itself. Not an ideal solution, – and I have no clue how long it will last…….. 🙄
On the fill probe: Matador 1, Cricket 0 points.
Air filling:
I honestly dont like any of the solutions that these two manufacturers have chosen………..
The Cricket people have come up with the worst. To expose the hole for the fillprobe, – you have to slide forward the tip of the reservoir. But that stupid tip is retained by a spring, – and slides back with a smack once you let go:
If you’re not careful when taking the fillprobe back out, the tip will spring back and ruin the fill probe O-rings faster than I can say my name….
While filling, the “tip” rests on the previously mentioned small nut. And there’s not a lot clearance. So a bigger nut (for those with lathe skills), – is not going to help you much. A thicker nut might…….
In short: A very stupid filling system, – BUT once you know how to operate it and care is taken, – at least it covers the hole when filling is over.
The Matador does not come with anything to cover the filling hole at all:
I use tape right now, – but a plug of some sort would be good….. 😉
My preferred system would be that of Falcon:
The tip of the reservoir has been turned into a curled “collar” that you rotate to expose the hole. Simple, easy and effective. And few moving parts that may break or go astray……….
Now, I have no idea how much air I can fill into the Cricket, – and the gun gauge certainly does not help much:
I trust the gauge on my fillkit, – and 3000 psi is roughly on the border between green and yellow…….
Points for airfill procedure: Matador 1, Cricket 0. In my opinion….. 😉
Cheers from Trygve 😀
To be continued……….. 😀
(if you so desire…… 😳 )
All Replies
😳
atb 😉 adam..
No problem Adam, – and thanks……! 😉
“Sorry” is among the hardest words to say, – and the ability to express this openly, – differentiates a man from a boy…….
Thanks again……. 😀
Cheers
Trygve 😀
– who is in process of packing his suitcase for Lanzarote………
😉 ok zoco sorry for messing up your thread,,not intended..
😳
i mean what i say tho,,2500/3000$ rifles should be perfect,,,
but we all know this eny way,,
atb 😉 adam..
Ty….is there any possibility of disassembly of the valve and regulator to see what, mechanically, is going on inside the two parts?
Many adjustments have been tried, to no avail. Perhaps it’s time to take a peek inside and see what’s afoot???
Regards,
H 😯 😯 T
Thanks a million……..
Cheers
Trygve in Oslo 😀
– and I mean it !!! Regardless of opinions, – this does NOT add to the value of the thread. I know I’m not a moderator, – but still…..
Please guys…….. 😉
😀
but for one a wolverine is £1300 a r3 is nearly £1900 get your fucking facts right dick head,,
and if you have 5 or 25 ed guns who gives a fuck,,just cos i dont own a edgun or cricket dont mean i dont know a good gun when i see one,,
the r2.5 were great from what i know,, R3 are shit bottom line,,and need lots of fettling to make them good..
and who the fuck are you to tell me were to post and were not to,,,
give ed all your money for all i care ,,,,,what you think im goona take that from a man who has had to lurn to fix his own edguns cos thay dont work right,, if ther so good why did you change eds barrels ..yeah yeah a gout..
preach the edgun gospol some were eles cos i dont give a fuck what you own in edgun ,,thers people here in the uk that has bought eds crap and been well unimpressed ,like (yoda for one) who had to litlery beg for a new breech,,
and then thers zoco himself BEGGING ed for answers and complaining about poor cnc work and clunky parts,,yeah right ,,,on a $2500/3000 rifle,, old gout take your mouth from eds ass and smell the coffe mate ,,,
YOUR ALL BEING RIPPED OF BY ED,,WITH CRAP GUNS OVER PRICED AND NOT UP TO PAR WITH CURRENT TOP END GUNS,,END OF TAKE IT AND EXCEPT IT ,,
ED WILL AND IS BUILDING A NICE BIG HOME AND HAVING A GOOD LIFE FROM ALL YOUR MONEY,,,, 😉 ,,, 😆 😆 😆 😆
For someone who makes such strong accusations, cursing and calling names, one would think that you can add credibility by spelling the words correctly. Grammar and punctuation should not be hard, especially if english is your native language. But I guess your just one of the elements that every country has, and we should not judge all British people for one illiterate rested mind.
Sorry for the off-topic…
It would be SO interesting to see the inside parts of this valve and regulator and actually diagnose the problem!
There have been numerous adjustments made with unpredictable and puzzling rests.
Again I plead with his excellency, the Marquises Zocoloco, to remove and ship his internals to the only known expert in the Western Hemisphere… The Most Honorable, His Goatship: Msr. Old Goat.
Once done, a scientific and logical approach of vivisection and examination of the offending parts could be performed at the world class institution: “Goathouse Mechanical Disorder Diagnosis Clinic”
We need not live in ignorance in this age of reliable transport and scientific knowledge.
I plead with these two gentlemen to arrange said transmission of parts, so examination can take place, and the results released to the Marquises for his consideration of possible repairs, parts replacement, and/or return “as is” for further interaction with the manufacturer.
Think of how much could be learned, how many unanswered questions resolved, how many Edgun owners could be forewarned as to necessary preventative measures, currently unknown, which may be necessary to ensure reliable and long term valve and regulator performance!
Here is an opportunity to grow and learn, while the owner attends to the necessary renovations to the Barony Lanzarote are undertaken!
Kindest regards, your humble and obedient servant…
Elderly and feeble Uncle H 😯 😯 t
Mechanical parts, like beautiful women, can look to be in order, and indeed fully functional on the outside, whilst internally dysfunctional, off balance, and capable of erratic and puzzling behavior, to an objective, intelligent, and informed male observer. Granted, both are a necessary evil to service a Man’s mechanical and physical needs, but neither should be trusted to always perform satisfactorily, as they are by design, prone to malfunction! ……. George Washington, circa 1775
Before you fill your bottle try to lower it to 120 bar and then connect it to your R3.
If the reg is your problem then the string will be flat.
Eitherway; When you fly from Oslo to London, make a stop at Amsterdam.
I’ll pick you up and make you a cup of coffee. (no charge)
Together we will take a look at your R3, I’m sure we’ll figure it out.
🙂
Seller and maker have been VERY helpfull for me in the past,
I’ve been treated with a service I’ve rarely seen.
Regards,
Robert
Hi Rob,
– and thanks for your offer !!! 😀
As much as would have liked it, – flying out of this country with a gun in your bag is not the smartest/easiest thing to do unless you are in desperate lack of proper board and lodgning….. 😉
The problem has been exposed, and I have reasons to believe I’m not the only one experiencing this……
Now, with efforts from all the good people on this forum, I’m certain the problem will be solved, – even in “remote control” mode…..
Thanks and cheers !
Trygve 😀
match up to your initial testing Cricket vs. .
Hi Mark,
You’re absolutely right, – and that’s a part of the mystery as my currents hsp settings are the same. In fact they are very close to my initial settings shown in my “waiting” thread (page 24 and onwards I think) from a year back.
If I put all of my strings from this gun into the same graph, – you will see that there are not two of them that are identical…….. 😉
Now, unfortunately time is not on my side…….
I’ll leave for Lanzarote and a planned refurbishment of my house there on Tuesday morning. Hopefully I’ll be back early Feb……..
I do hope more complete Cricket strings will surface during this period. Also it would be interesting to see what strings people have been/are getting from their std cal.22 Matadors. I am especially interested to find out whether others may have had the same experiences as myself, – meaning a lot of chronying would be needed for documentation purposes……… 😀
AND Happy New Year everybody !!!! 😀
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Zoco, you are a class act, my friend.
😯 😯 😯
Adam, – please don’t shout !!! No need to….. 😉
Also I prefer to speak for myself, – I don’t need this kind of “support” from anybody. While I appreciate your comments to a certain degree, – this thread is about comaprison of two brands of guns. Now, if you haven’t got the experience with any of them, – you’re pretty much disqualified in my book, – as would OG when it comes to knowledge about Crickets. I for one am anxiously awaiting for more user experiences with the latter as it is far too early to judge…
As for Daystates, I happen to have 6 of them (AirRanger 50 and 80, Airwolf MVT and three Huntsmen), and I have been a member of DOC for quite some time. You live in the UK and may have the luxury of cruising their facilities while they fix your gun. I don’t. And I dare say I’m not overly impressed with their customer service seen from abroad. Also I have dismantled a few of these guns. Believe me when I say there is not much proof that they have ever seen a CNC machine, – at least not more than my Russian guns. But again this is beyond the scope of this thread……. 😀
The CNC work on the alu parts of ED’s guns are in fact of a standard that you will find in very few modern airguns, – be it from UK or other countries…
Yes some of the ED steel breeches give reason for concern, – and yes it seems quality control can be improved on ED’s side. I guess this may have been confirmed via various threads on this very forum. And yes, ED may not be there for me/us all the time when we need him. But he is certainly much more available than most airgun manufacturers ever were……..
Back to the reg issue. This is where I think most people would agree. A user should not be supposed to experience what I am right now. ED himself has confirmed that the reg is not a stable unit (page 24 onwards in my waiting thread). In fact he states that the reg’s plastic and rubber parts will change over time, – especially if you leave the gun for a while without shooting. Apparently he is right, – and it puzzles me that this does not seem to be the case with the Cricket. At least not yet…….. 😉
And one more thing: I happen to know that ED is not overly wealthy, – but hopefully he will get there one of theses days. I think he deserves that as a result of his passion for his work. As much as I disagree with him at times and voice that openly, I prefer to bag those discrepancies in opinion between me and ED into a sack called “cultural differences”……
May I please ask that we try to stay on the subject and try to avoid SHOUTING as well as personal conflicts/attacks in the continuation of this thread ????
Thanks a million……..
Cheers
Trygve in Oslo 😀
old gout im not having a bad day i carnt be botherd to put you right ,,
but for one a wolverine is £1300 a r3 is nearly £1900 get your fucking facts right dick head,,
and if you have 5 or 25 ed guns who gives a fuck,,just cos i dont own a edgun or cricket dont mean i dont know a good gun when i see one,,
the r2.5 were great from what i know,, R3 are shit bottom line,,and need lots of fettling to make them good..
and who the fuck are you to tell me were to post and were not to,,,
give ed all your money for all i care ,,,,,what you think im goona take that from a man who has had to lurn to fix his own edguns cos thay dont work right,, if ther so good why did you change eds barrels ..yeah yeah a gout..
preach the edgun gospol some were eles cos i dont give a fuck what you own in edgun ,,thers people here in the uk that has bought eds crap and been well unimpressed ,like (yoda for one) who had to litlery beg for a new breech,,
and then thers zoco himself BEGGING ed for answers and complaining about poor cnc work and clunky parts,,yeah right ,,,on a $2500/3000 rifle,, old gout take your mouth from eds ass and smell the coffe mate ,,,
YOUR ALL BEING RIPPED OF BY ED,,WITH CRAP GUNS OVER PRICED AND NOT UP TO PAR WITH CURRENT TOP END GUNS,,END OF TAKE IT AND EXCEPT IT ,,
ED WILL AND IS BUILDING A NICE BIG HOME AND HAVING A GOOD LIFE FROM ALL YOUR MONEY,,,, 😉 ,,, 😆 😆 😆 😆
😯 😯 😯
WOW Adam: Are you having a bad day or are you always so unpleasant?
I have been reading all of your bull shit posts and doing my best to ignore them. I couldn’t take it any more.
Actually, I think that the Styer is around $500 more and I know that the Wolverine is $700 more and it only gets 15 semi regulated shots.
I have bought 4 Matadors and I am currently waiting on my 5th. The only issues that I have ever had with any of them was a couple of broken air valves on my R2.5 25 cal long that was set up to shoot 37 grain pellets at 950 fps. Once I turned it down to 885 fps with JSB 25.4 grain pellets, It was trouble free for the next 10,000-15,000 shots. I shoot a lot. It took me around 20 minutes to change an air valve.
I had to adjust the regulator down, once I did that, I got shot strings that would compare or beat any regulated air gun out there. All of my other Matadors produce the same flat shot string.
I don’t own a Cricket. Never had a desire to own one. Right now, the only selling points for a Cricket are that they have a mag and they take less time to get one. I am not interested in a mag and when/if the new Matadors come out with a mag, I will have to make a single shot loading tray for it.
I think that the Crickets are a copy of the Matador and that the Cricket’s internals are lower quality than the Edgun’s. Case in point, the Cricket uses what looks like a RC plane control rod stamped steel clevis in the trigger linkage! If I was to buy one of them, I would have to change it out as soon as I got the gun.
Crickets fill to 300 bar and get the same or less regulated shots than the Matador that fills to 200 bar. I haven’t seen a Cricket shot string with speeds in the 880-890 range. Most of them are in the 820-850 range. If they can even be turned up to 880-890, the regulated shots would be reduced.
We will see how the Edgun VS Cricket comparison turns out after the Cricket has been here a few years. The Crickets have been available in Russia for a few years. In the Russian air gun competitions, the Edgun usually comes out on top VS the Cricket.
Actually, I hope that the Cricket sells well and takes some pressure off of Ed and Tony. I might not have to wait as long for my next Edguns!
Adam: when I first got a computer and got on the net, I would sometimes inadvertently hit the caps key and my post WOULD ALL BE IN CAPITAL LETTERS. Not a big deal, you will learn to watch for that as you become accustomed to the digital age!
PS, If you don’t own a Cricket or a Matador; WTF are you doing on the Edguns and Bull Pups section? Has your nasty attitude got you kicked off of all of the other forums and this is the only place that you can post/stir shit on?
I am not a bit worried about the two Russian guns being compared in this thread. That as long as they are being used under “normal” circumstances.
BUT when people start experimenting with 300 bar fills (and some idiots will), – there’s a whole new set of problems linked to that…. 😉
I am not necessarily talking about the guns themselves. But more so fillprobes, fillkits, gaskets, couplings, gauges etc. etc…….
Going from 200 to 300 bars is not only bad economy, – it might also be a risky process. And any potential accident somehow involving a gun not having adequate marking, – may become a problem even if the gun itself is not the cause for it……..
But, yes, – this is a jungle of paragraphs/rules and regulations, – and it is not easy to understand….. 😥
Let’s move on………. 😉
Now, – I have previously shown you the Cricket gauge which does not seem to reveal a lot of information:
Having filled and refilled a few times, I think it says that you’re in the clear as long as you’re in the green zone. Based on my various gauges and fillkits, it appears that the green zone would start in the area of 200 bars and bring you down to roughly 100 when the regulator seems to come off and a refill would be wise. In the blue zone “breathing problems” start, – and in the yellow zone you are moving into territory unknown to most. I have not tested how far it goes in terms of bars, – but I would not be surprised if it ends around 300 bars and that the red zone is a “no-go” zone…:wink:
I have spent some time chronoing now……..
In an environment that I claim is “controlable” and “stable”, – others would disagree completely. In the latter group is my girlfriend, my kids and a few others… 😉
Welcome to my Oslo “world”:
I have marks on the floor for the Chrono set up and for the shooting table. This in order to ensure a fairly even distance between chrono and muzzle from one session to the next.
The Chronograph (I call her “Chronelia”) is a US made CED M2 which sucks when it comes to rigging. However “Chronelia” has some built in features which I like. One is a remote display you may see on my so-called “dining table”. If I manage to aim at/shoot through that, I shall seriously be considering giving up shooting alltogether…..
She has also a built in sexy lady who reads out the numbers for you loud and clear. Nice if you feel sad and lonely, – she’s always there for you. As long as she has enough power that is. She eats batteries like there’s no tomorrow, – and she is sometimes more expensive in the keeping than my gf…. 😥
I always use skyscreens and IR-light. This to ensure that measurements are read in the same manner regardless of lightning conditions.
“Chronelia” is somewhat modest in her readings, – and oddly enough she reads some 10/15 fps lower than my 4 Chronies. And none of the latter ever gives the same reading in between them. So chronying is not a “scientifically accurate” and “exact” business unless you invest in somewhat more sophisticated equipmet.
“Chronelia” has a USB connection that transfers your strings into Excel very easily. That is as long as her USB interface corresponds with that of Bill Gates. Unfortunately that’s not always the case. The CED people in the US blames Bill Gates and vice versa. So right now I have a dedicated laptop that “Chronelia” likes and communicates with. From that I have to transfer by memory stick to my desktop (Dell Optiplex 990 something). A little complicated, but it works.
I have several hundred shotstrings archived, – something that makes it easy to compare over time. Partly also the reason why I want to keep the same setup .
Behind the skyscreens you see two doors. The rightmost takes you into my “toolshop” and the the one to the left leads into my gunroom. I shoot through the door to the far left where the pellet trap is positioned just in front of my bedroom in there somewhere…….
Now to some of my findings, – and “LadyCricket” first:
I filled her up to 200 bars (my fillkit gauge) and reached the end of the gauge greenzone. Then I started to shoot without any prior adjustments. Pellets in the above: JSB 18, 5.52 mm. The reservoir holds 280 cc.
Resulting string is represented by the blue line. Some 50 good shots in the 860+ area before I reached the “blue zone” and the reg came off. Compared to the shotstring shown earlier its not bad, and an indication that ED is right. I seem to have more shots from 200 to 100 bar than from 300 to 200.
But then I tried to adjust power up. Started with 1/2 turn in on hammerspring. The resulting string is represented in red. As expected, – a little up on power, – but fewer shots. String still fairly flat which indicates that hammerspring tension and regulator still speaks the same language.
A new adjustment, – and this time I turned the adjustment screw 2 full turns in hoping to reach R3 levels. I could hear the hammerspring complaining as I rotated the screw……
The resulting string is shown in green in the above. Not much change at all !!! 😯
No noticable increase in speed at all, – but a lot fewer shots……. 🙄
What does this mean now ?
It seems to me that “Lady Cricket” does not want to deliver more than 870 fps (corrected for low readings by Cronelia, -may be 880)…..
She simply does not seem to have the power to do so…….
This is weird…..
If any of you have any experience with the Cricket, – please give me some advice here…….
I did not try to adjust the hsp further in. My gut feeling tells me it will not help much, – and I run the risk of breaking something……….
So I turned the hsp back out to factory settings, scratched my head a little and then decided to do another and more odd test:
I started off with one mag (14 shots) of JSB 18, – then I moved directly on to JSB 15.8 (5.52) for the next mag, – 3rd mag back to JSB 18 and 4th mag Barracuda 21.14 grs (5.52) before finishing off with JSB 18. Something that you should not do in a real world, – at least not without a barrel cleaning first.
It appears that “Lady Cricket” reacts quickly and quite consistently to “payload”, and I was particularly happy with her acceptance of Barras.
But all this are just indications, I need to test a lot more……. 😉
Now time for R3 which (according to ED’s website) has a reservoir of 289 cc, – 9 cc (3.2%) more than that of “Lady Cricket”, – in practical terms theoretically one shot more or so per fill. I used R3 no 2844 and filled her up to 200 bar on the same fillkit gauge (btw. corresponding well with Ed’s gauge) and with the hsp tension I currently have.
I stopped shooting at about 100 bars on the gun gauge. Same pellets, – same everything…….
But not the same result:
The string is represented in green above……
I could not believe my own eyes when I saw this. Not only does the string show an advantage in terms of speed of some 40/50 fps, – but the shotcount is also much higher…
As per Ed’s request, I then adjusted the hsp of the R3 half a turn out in order to try to achieve the same speed as “Lady Cricket”. I knew this would reduce the flatness at the end, but still. The blue string shows you what happened.
While still delivering some 900 fps, – the shotcount increased to nearly 80 good shots…
“Lady Cricket’s” factory settings produced the red string above….
ED, – I know you’re gonna love this, but quite honestly it seems that the R3 could easily eat “Lady Cricket” for breakfast…….. 😀
At least when it comes to power and shotcount…….
I’ll need to do a lot more testing to have this verified, but the indication is clear. Much clearer than I would have anticipated up front…….. 😉
Any comments ????
(if you’re still awake that is………. 😳 😳 😳 )
I myself need another drink……… 😀
Your post from May….
Your Edgun once produced a very flat string. Now it’s erratic. I stated once before as others. You need to crack open reg. I suspect contaminants and Oring wear. Time to clean and lube.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Eventually yes, – but not now. Time is not on my side unfortunately…….. 😥
Leaving for Lanzarote in 36 hours………… 😀