EDgun Matador R3 versus Kalibr Cricket, my comparison….
Hi guys,
Warning for those who don’t like images:
This is going to be a thread with lots of graphics….. 😉
As promised, I’ll try to share with you my personal opinion and findings while comparing these beauties:
As some of you may know, I have two Matador Std R3s and I have one Cricket (with access to another one). All are cal.22……
My wait for my Matadors should be well documented on this very forum…..
The Crickets were a part of a group buy masterminded from Europe somewhere. The Crickets were shipped in parts to Norway and reassembled by my good blueprinting friend Egon Olsen. In the process he had to remove a “restrictor” screw that had been put into the guns before shipment. Most probably because of Power limitation rules at origin….
The Crickets arrived with no documents whatsoever. No instructions, – no nothing. I don’t think this is standard procedure though…..
The Cricket weighs less than the R3, – and is approx 5 cm shorter. Not a lot, – but overall it makes the Cricket even easier to handle than the already tiny R3….
The side by side comparison was done from my modest little shooting table at my summerhouse:
– and the shooting range is here, – with my target set up at 46mts:
Why 46 mts ? Simply because I could not pull my shooting stand further back right now. A huge tree has fallen during winter, and all the branches have taken up my space… 👿
First problem: How to fill the f…. Cricket ?
The fillprobe nut is so tiny that a standard foster coupling gasket will not seal. The entire probe is small, – and you fear you may break it while trying to tighten it:
The above (sorry for the image quality) is a comparison between ED’s, Cricket’s and Falcon’s fill probes. You can probably see what I mean….
As I could not make a standard Fostergasket fit, Egon had to make special gaskets that we fitted into the Foster coupling itself. Not an ideal solution, – and I have no clue how long it will last…….. 🙄
On the fill probe: Matador 1, Cricket 0 points.
Air filling:
I honestly dont like any of the solutions that these two manufacturers have chosen………..
The Cricket people have come up with the worst. To expose the hole for the fillprobe, – you have to slide forward the tip of the reservoir. But that stupid tip is retained by a spring, – and slides back with a smack once you let go:
If you’re not careful when taking the fillprobe back out, the tip will spring back and ruin the fill probe O-rings faster than I can say my name….
While filling, the “tip” rests on the previously mentioned small nut. And there’s not a lot clearance. So a bigger nut (for those with lathe skills), – is not going to help you much. A thicker nut might…….
In short: A very stupid filling system, – BUT once you know how to operate it and care is taken, – at least it covers the hole when filling is over.
The Matador does not come with anything to cover the filling hole at all:
I use tape right now, – but a plug of some sort would be good….. 😉
My preferred system would be that of Falcon:
The tip of the reservoir has been turned into a curled “collar” that you rotate to expose the hole. Simple, easy and effective. And few moving parts that may break or go astray……….
Now, I have no idea how much air I can fill into the Cricket, – and the gun gauge certainly does not help much:
I trust the gauge on my fillkit, – and 3000 psi is roughly on the border between green and yellow…….
Points for airfill procedure: Matador 1, Cricket 0. In my opinion….. 😉
Cheers from Trygve 😀
To be continued……….. 😀
(if you so desire…… 😳 )
All Replies
Zoco, it’s a piece of cake. It takes as long to chrono a shot string as it does to break down to reg and reassemble the Edgun.
How problematic would it be to examine both the valve and regulator.
Perhaps someone has blown an O-ring, gasket, or part. Solution: take it apart and see what pieces fall out! …..
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 T
Senile as hell…but still rolling!
Genius….pure genius, guys!!!!
I’m always amazed at how this group manages to arrive at the right answer to the most difficult problem!
H 😯 😯 T
Come on, do it!
If for no better reason at all, than just to put your mind at ease that everything is as it should be, no bad orings..ect
My suspicion too……… 😉
See my first post from Dec. 17th…….. 😀
Thanks Nazer, – I’m starting to look forward to the dismantling process now !!!
Cheers
Trygve 
Trygve
Thats what they call regulator creep & only once you open up the regulator that we will know, maybe an o-ring or something is failing inside it.
If you decide to mess around with the requlator than we shall find out.
good luck
Hi Nazer,
I couldn’t agree with you more !!! 😀
And no buyer of a 2K gun should have to experience this…….. 😥
6-7 K of pellets to break in properly sounds unlikely, – but if that is what it takes, – then………. 🙄
However it’s been proven beyond doubt that as long as I stay above reg pressure, – Matador R3 no 2844 with its present settings performs much better than if it had been shot beyond reg. pressure…. 😉
Why I have no clue, – but I suspect the reg has to do with it……..
My Cricket did not behave that way nor have any of my other guns….
I still intend to go down the adjustment alley but begin to realize time may not be on my side right now…… 😥
Unfortunately Christmas takes its toll also on me. Three daughters flying in from all over the world, one demanding female housed in London and added to that a rather large family, shall take up most of time in the days to come…. 😳
So folks…..:
Marry X-mas to everybody !!!
Cheers !!!
Trygve
I still think that should not be the case, you should be able to shoot past the regulator & refill & still get a steady string.
Let me clarify just in case. 20-40 shots past reg steady drop(push past just to see how reg reacted). No noticeable difference in spread on next shot string after refill. The reg no longer needs to relearn like it did when new.
Ill do 500-1000 pellets in a day no problem.
MrNewbie- I have upgraded to Chairgun 4 and that tool isn’t there any more like I used in 3. I may have to downgrade to get it back unless the fix 4.
I will try to give any and all information. Looking forward.
NAturally Ohio is getting there first snow tomorrow or Friday. HAs not snowed yet…. 😕
I am not as sharp or detailed as many of you. I shot at targets and try to hit them ( or crows) But I have a new chrony to use.
MrNewbie: you live i think 20 minutes from me. It is difficult to find a fellow airginner. I sent you a note on this system couple days ago.
Thanks Trygve with your insight,
JR
I know my velocity drops off around the 110-115ish point per Edgun gauge so I know when I’m in field when my POI will start to change.
I’ve done multiple strings back to back without adjustment ,shooting 20-40 shots past reg easily. No noticeable change in spread.
I didn’t adjust reg until I had a couple thousand shots on her.
She really settled in somewhere after 6-7k. I’ve got probably 20k through her now and the reg is performing better than it ever has with a 2.3 SD. Last nights runs with unsorted pellets was impressive.
I always do quick dozen chrony shots before and after any shooting session
to make sure I’m where it’s supposed to be.
Hmmmmm….
6-7 K to settle in sounds more like it. I’ve still a few tins ahead of me then….. 😉
But honestly I don’t think the majority ever gets that far. 6 K is a lot of pellets, and if you’re not at it every day so to speak you may never get there…. 🙄
100 pellets a week for a full year is some 5.200 pellets….
I wonder what the Cricket peolple have done to make their reg settle more or less immediately………
And 20-40 shots past reg without noticable change in spread ??? 😯 That’s impressive….
Believe me, I couldn’t do that. Not even with a noticable spread. Simply not enough air left……
Hmmmmm…..
Cheers
Trygve 😀
FYI. Your getting there on your reg adjust. It was 30* last night in garage but I wanted to run a few strings anyway. I had to up my HST a bit as its been running low 800fps in this cold compared to it’s normal 880 range i have set at for summertime 100 temps. I know that hurt air consumption a bit from normal 115 shot string.
3 strings I got 92 shots at 875fps. Max spread of 10.2 with SD of 2.35.
Chaigun Pro3
In Tools menu – Statistics
We need more Cricket shotstrings..
My 22 long reg came marked 130. I’ve got it turned appx 3/8 IIRC.
I know my velocity drops off around the 110-115ish point per Edgun gauge so I know when I’m in field when my POI will start to change.
I’ve done multiple strings back to back without adjustment ,shooting 20-40 shots past reg easily. No noticeable change in spread.
I didn’t adjust reg until I had a couple thousand shots on her.
She really settled in somewhere after 6-7k. I’ve got probably 20k through her now and the reg is performing better than it ever has with a 2.3 SD. Last nights runs with unsorted pellets was impressive.
I always do quick dozen chrony shots before and after any shooting session
to make sure I’m where it’s supposed to be.
I don’t know if this is of any relevance or coincidence but, when I shoot my R3 #3535 off the reg, the following consecutive 1 to 2 fills, I see FPS all over the place… Maybe this type reg doesn’t like coming off its set value.
Food for thought???
Brgds
Jack
Hi Jack,
– and thanks for interesting input……
I’ve been thinking the same thing. ED also recommends to stay above reg pressure without giving any reasons. But it does make a lot of sense to stay above reg pressure, – especially if the reg is of the “sensitive” type and/or new in his job. After all the regulator is nothing but a “doorman” who keeps the crowd (the bars of the reservoir) out of the “nightclub” (valve chamber). He is allowed to let in the number permitted by the “authorities only” (ED in my case) who has preset the allowed number of bars(guests) before shipping the rifle. He said he had preset at some 120 bars…….
So I tested again today. Without changing anything. I shot 3 complete strings from roughly 200 bar and down to some 115 bars. That should be just below the preset reg. pressure……
And guess what ?
You seem to have a veery valid point here ! 😀 :
Brown string is my first string from yesterday. It was actually a few shots longer and well beyond the preset reg. value.
Blue string is my first string of today. I was very careful not to go beyond 115 bars. Then I filled up again:
Green string represents today’s second. Shot immediately after refill and after the blue string.
Violet string is today’s third. Shot immediately after refill and after the green.
I also recorded bars used for every 10 shots. Some 15 bars down pr 10 shots in the first string and a little less in the last string but not much.
There’s a lot to deduct from this exercise:
1. Shooting beyond preset reg.value does not seem to be smart (I did that yesterday with the corresponding graphs you’ve seen in a previous post). It seems the reg gets “somewhat confused” when there’s not enough pressure from outside. Apparently he needs to readjust himself before he can go back to work and perform as expected. May be he performs better when he has enough experience and has settled in properly.
2. It may be my reg has not fully settled in yet. I can think of no other explanation why the green and violet strings show lower values than the one above. Pls correct me if I am wrong…… 😳
3. My reg seems to have been preset in the area of some 125/130 bars. It appears from the strings that the reg comes off duty around shot no 48. Knowing that I used some 15 bars pr 10 shots, and that I stopped each string around 115 bars makes calculation easy.
4. 60 shots only as opposed to ED’s promised 70 may have to do with my fills which started at 200 bars. 210 is what ED recommends, and I could probably have added a few more shots to each string as well.
5. I have seen lots of strings from untuned R3s, – and the above strings do not differ much in terms of extreme spread. The above strings show an extreme spread of some 20/25 fps each. Whether this is because of the regulator or the valve remains to be seen. ED has put new valves into the present production. There must be a reason for that. I am sure finetuning of my gun can reduce the extreme spread significantly. However very little has been said about the role of the valve in all this, and it may be worth while looking into that as well…
6. I have seen very few (if any) R3 graphs showing more than one string only. The comment made by Nazer that people shoot beyond regulator value all the time is valid. I do too. But do they chrony their next string ???? I am very curious about this. I would indeed like to see several strings shot after each other and under the same conditions from more of these R3s out there.
I’ll advance the following provocative hypothesis……. 😉 : I don’t think people really know what speed they shoot at. They chrony one string and may be adjust a little and that’s it. I guess a lot of people may have the same experience as I’ve had if they continue shooting beyond preset reg value.
And that is especially if the reg has not fully settled in yet………
7. I shall leave the gun as it is for now. To me it looks like she has not fully settled yet despite the number of pellets she has eaten. She may need more. That said I seem to be shooting at speeds that may be too high for the jsb 18 the be at their best. I may want to adjust reg pressure, – but not until the gun has stabilized under the present regime… 😉
8. It seems the Cricket regulator is less sensitive than that of the R3s……..
Comments anybody ?
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Mrnewbie. What software are you using to plot? New version of Chairgun no longer has plot table so I’m having to record by hand each 32 shot string and results of spreads from chrono.
FYI. Your getting there on your reg adjust. It was 30* last night in garage but I wanted to run a few strings anyway. I had to up my HST a bit as its been running low 800fps in this cold compared to it’s normal 880 range i have set at for summertime 100 temps. I know that hurt air consumption a bit from normal 115 shot string.
3 strings I got 92 shots at 875fps. Max spread of 10.2 with SD of 2.35.
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heheheh….. 😆
I’ll get there……. 😉
Would be nice though to have needed remedies handy like washing liquids and stuff. What do you guys use ???
Also the documentation process needs some prep.work from my side ….
A little more loud thinking on paper:
Regulator creep: Now if that is the case and it is complete (a non functioning regulator that lets through whatever is in the reservoir), – the string would look exactly like a string from an unregulated gun, – wouldn’t it ? 🙄
The first shot would provoke a partial “valve-lock” because the hammer would not be able to open the valve properly. The result less air in the valve chamber and a lower fps. Next shot a little less “valve-lock” and hence a higher fps etc. etc. until equilibrium is reached between hsp-tension/valve combination and reservoir pressure (sweet-spot). When you pass that part of the string and the air reservoir pressure gets below that of the hsp/valve, – the fps will drop again until there’s no more available air……
Something like this:
– which is more or less the opposite of what happens in my strings…… 😉
A partial or limited “regulator creep” where the reg starts by leaking into the valve chamber as long as the reservoir pressure is above a certain number of bars, – but is able to close the door at a lower pressure, would still provide a “valve-lock” at the begiining of the string and thus lower fps. Once the point is reached where the reg is able to control the airstream properly, – the string would be flat from there on until the reg comes off…….
Again I cannot see such a pattern in my strings…… 🙄
Meaning what……….. ???
Hmmmmm….. 😳
Comments anybody ???
Cheers from Trygve who wishes his old high school physics teacher would still be around…….. 😳 😳 😳
PS: Hoot, – you’ve always been a genius. Haven’t you ??? :3: