EDgun Matador R3 versus Kalibr Cricket, my comparison….
Hi guys,
Warning for those who don’t like images:
This is going to be a thread with lots of graphics….. 😉
As promised, I’ll try to share with you my personal opinion and findings while comparing these beauties:
As some of you may know, I have two Matador Std R3s and I have one Cricket (with access to another one). All are cal.22……
My wait for my Matadors should be well documented on this very forum…..
The Crickets were a part of a group buy masterminded from Europe somewhere. The Crickets were shipped in parts to Norway and reassembled by my good blueprinting friend Egon Olsen. In the process he had to remove a “restrictor” screw that had been put into the guns before shipment. Most probably because of Power limitation rules at origin….
The Crickets arrived with no documents whatsoever. No instructions, – no nothing. I don’t think this is standard procedure though…..
The Cricket weighs less than the R3, – and is approx 5 cm shorter. Not a lot, – but overall it makes the Cricket even easier to handle than the already tiny R3….
The side by side comparison was done from my modest little shooting table at my summerhouse:
– and the shooting range is here, – with my target set up at 46mts:
Why 46 mts ? Simply because I could not pull my shooting stand further back right now. A huge tree has fallen during winter, and all the branches have taken up my space… 👿
First problem: How to fill the f…. Cricket ?
The fillprobe nut is so tiny that a standard foster coupling gasket will not seal. The entire probe is small, – and you fear you may break it while trying to tighten it:
The above (sorry for the image quality) is a comparison between ED’s, Cricket’s and Falcon’s fill probes. You can probably see what I mean….
As I could not make a standard Fostergasket fit, Egon had to make special gaskets that we fitted into the Foster coupling itself. Not an ideal solution, – and I have no clue how long it will last…….. 🙄
On the fill probe: Matador 1, Cricket 0 points.
Air filling:
I honestly dont like any of the solutions that these two manufacturers have chosen………..
The Cricket people have come up with the worst. To expose the hole for the fillprobe, – you have to slide forward the tip of the reservoir. But that stupid tip is retained by a spring, – and slides back with a smack once you let go:
If you’re not careful when taking the fillprobe back out, the tip will spring back and ruin the fill probe O-rings faster than I can say my name….
While filling, the “tip” rests on the previously mentioned small nut. And there’s not a lot clearance. So a bigger nut (for those with lathe skills), – is not going to help you much. A thicker nut might…….
In short: A very stupid filling system, – BUT once you know how to operate it and care is taken, – at least it covers the hole when filling is over.
The Matador does not come with anything to cover the filling hole at all:
I use tape right now, – but a plug of some sort would be good….. 😉
My preferred system would be that of Falcon:
The tip of the reservoir has been turned into a curled “collar” that you rotate to expose the hole. Simple, easy and effective. And few moving parts that may break or go astray……….
Now, I have no idea how much air I can fill into the Cricket, – and the gun gauge certainly does not help much:
I trust the gauge on my fillkit, – and 3000 psi is roughly on the border between green and yellow…….
Points for airfill procedure: Matador 1, Cricket 0. In my opinion….. 😉
Cheers from Trygve 😀
To be continued……….. 😀
(if you so desire…… 😳 )
All Replies
Well, I do not want to be to direct or insensitive..but
The Cricket’s reg blows the Edgun’s out of the water….period !!
But, this is only one example..it does not prove that all Crickets regs are that sweet and shoot that well. It would be unfair to asume this is the normal untill several Crickets are tested.
Also..is the ability to regulate the only thing? Just how important is that 4 or 5 SD and 10FPS spread ?? Something to think about.
The TalonSS was shooting as sweet as it ever has in the past year, with its JDS reg and a sd of 4-5, spread of about 10. It still stinks as far as groups go when compaired to the Edgun.
Well anyhow, because of you guys I got off my butt, and did the Edgun tear down tonight. The Edgun tear down was , well simple. Nothing to be afraid of. I wanted to do it just to check things out and check the insides for dirt/dust..shoebox filling remnants. Everything looked like brand new, all in good shape . Interesting to tear down the reg assembly and see how it all works.
Adjusted the reg 1/2 turn in then went to refill. All I can say is GOOD ONE GOD! The shoebox took a crap, would not fill past 170bar.
After piddle-f===ing around an hour I figured out it was the shoebox and not a bad oring in the Edgun from me taking it apart. (figures..good one)
Shoebox Low pressure cylinder rebuilt..
Still same…Shoebox High pressure cylinder rebuilt.
(I knew it was comming..been perfect for about a year, It was due)
fixed…
Well got to the shot string after all…
..Turning the Reg down and tunning in the HST made quite a diff. I now have a much longer shot string. The last post was of a 65 shot string..this one is a hundred and kept going till it died off at 120 shots in the 890’s. The SD and Spread are just about the same as before..Just over 100 shots now instead of 65.
Don’t know if it was worth the effort other than to tear the gun apart and have agood look-see of the internals.
Still has a SD of about 5 and shot pread of about 20.
– me again thinking loud on paper:
Its probably a good idea to put some of this string variation stuff into perspective…. 😉
What does a 60 fps extreme spread really mean in practical terms ?
According to Chairgun (if I remember correctly), a drop from 920 fps to 860 fps would give you a little less than an inch of drop in POI at 50 yds with a 18.1 grs pellet. As lots of airgun hunting is done at that range approximately, – it may not mean a hell of a lot of difference for the final outcome (depending on size of target). ….. 😉
At 100 yds things change, and we talk some 4 inches of drop in POI. That is a lot, – even for airgun hunting………
But then again few of these strings show as much as 60 fps extreme spread. Meaning for hunting it may be OK with the variations shown……
A different matter for us paperclippers though…….. 😥
😀
Hear hear…….
I fully agree…….. 😀
Edgun for dummies sounds like a big hit topic for me. that’ll def be interesting. We will also need a cricket for dummies, if they ever give us problems ,which i’m sure they will, and prob harder to tinker with than the edgun. lots of edgun experts here. including the man himself (ED) thats awesome. i dont know to many gun manufactures that offer support and interact with us like him he’s definately passionate about his work and what people think of his product 😉
Thanks a million all of you !!! 😀
The purpose of this thread is to compare ED’s Matadors to Kalibrs’ Crickets…. 😉
What puzzles me a lot is the fact that her Ladyship Miss Cricket has been through just as many shots as her Russian opponent. AND she shows no sign of bad behaviour as opposed to the R3s which apparently have been all over the place for quite a few of us…..
Also I have yet to see a string as flat as that of Lady Cricket. An extreme spread of some 6 fps over 50 shots pluss is very good. The string posted earlier by the help of Kazzz showed an extreme spread of some 4 fps over 90 shots, which is exeptional by any standards…. 😯
Experience from one gun by one man may certainly not be enough for conclusions. I am indeed looking forward to the future experience of the new born Cricketeers on this site. And if your own experiences will match mine, – ED and the R3s are facing a challenge when it comes to credibility. As it seems right now, – his regulators don’t keep up as well as that of Lady Cricket….. 😥
That said, I happen to own quite a number of high end regulated airguns. Some of which I have been shooting for years. I have never experienced this kind of problem with any of them……
Food for thought ???? 😉
Now, I’ll proceed by lowering the HSP-tension first and then shoot, adjust, shoot again etc. ED’s regulator must have been set somewhere, and my intension is to find that sweetspot wherever that may be. Once found, I’ll decide whether or not that preset speed is my desired one…..
If not, – I’ll move down the reg.adjustment alley to see what can be done. And my intension is to take my camera along for the ride. Sounds like a fun X-mas project…… 😀
I may want to start another “EDgun for dummies” kind of thread describing that project. Knowing myself it could end up being a very graphical thread….
What do you guys think ? 😀
Cheers from Oslo where I’m running out of air… 😀
Zoco,
I don’t want to inter fear with Naser helping you. He knows more than a lot of us. With that being said I think you’re making more work for yourself than needs be. I can’t answer your question as to why your gun is doing what it is except to say that now that the gun has settled in after thousands of shots. I believe your regulator and HST are not in tuned (balanced) with each other therefore you are experiencing such strings. As I see it the regulator needs to be turned just ever so slightly in, (turned down) then the hammer spring needs to be reduced. After turning the reg down you must turn down the HST. Start at 700 fps (as suggested by ED) and progress in small increments until you reach your magic number. It doesn’t take much for the reg to be out of adjustment especial when it’s resting at the cusp. It’s easy to adjust the reg but one may find it intimidating the first time after that it’s a piece of cake. My .22 R3 Std came to me unturned that is I believe mine may have been one of the Russia made/assembled that had to be dismantled /reassembled before crossing over the border. Once I familiarized myself with the EDgun I was able to tune it to its present condition. At 32.8 fpe, gun is adjusted for 904 fps, filled to 200 bars I get 70 shots with an extreme es of 12fps. It seems 65-70 can be achieved with only an es of 6-8 but I am happy with my results and accuracy. As for accuracy at 40 yards I can hit .22 pellets consistently and at 70 yards I can achieve 5/16 – 3/8” group from 4 out of the 5 shot group. I have done very little 100 yard groups but have not been impressed by my group sizes and feel that I may have to lower overall speed down from 904 to somewhere in the proximity of 870-880 in order to achieve better 100 yard groups. I hope I have given some encouragement. This is of my own findings and by no means do i wish to intrude upon Naser’s or anyone else’s findings and or help that are being provided to you.
Simple adjustment seems to aggrivate the problem.
How problematic would it be to examine both the valve and regulator.
Perhaps someone has blown an O-ring, gasket, or part. Solution: take it apart and see what pieces fall out!
My tools consist of a dremel and A 20″ Huskvarna chain saw, so my methods may seem primitive to the rest of you artisans.
After Christmas, I’m upgrading to an American Standard flat head screwdrive, and my wife has promised me a Phillips head for my next birthday.
So take my advice with a grain of salt.
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 T
Senile as hell…but still rolling!
I don’t know if this is of any relevance or coincidence but, when I shoot my R3 #3535 off the reg, the following consecutive 1 to 2 fills, I see FPS all over the place… Maybe this type reg doesn’t like coming off its set value.
Food for thought???
Brgds
Jack
Intresting, but that shouldnt be the case, most people shoot until they get off the reg & re fill.
Trygve,
All the way out as in less force to open the valve. I am sure its not the problem of it being too weak other wise the string will start off slow & rise in speed once the pressure drops.
so make the HST weaker.
try screwing the HST all the way to the end,
Which way, – all the way in or all the way out ???? 🙄
Gents,
I don’t know if this is of any relevance or coincidence but, when I shoot my R3 #3535 off the reg, the following consecutive 1 to 2 fills, I see FPS all over the place… Maybe this type reg doesn’t like coming off its set value.
Food for thought???
Brgds
Jack
Okay try this please.
try screwing the HST all the way to the end, fill to the 200 or 210 like you did for yesterdays string & give me a graph compared to todays blue line please.
Hi again Nazer,
You are so right, – I’ve been shooting most of the day. See below……
I did………. 😉
As it happens I think my R3 no 2844 may be related to Picasso and may be also to the author of “X-files” or friends. The below is not for humans to understand:
I’ll try to explain:
The green line is my last string from yesterday for comparison purposes. My question was why on earth did the string drop ????
Brown line: I tried again today. Same HSP-tension, same everything. Today’s first string. Pretty much on top in the image and somewhat flattish around 920 fps. I thought the reg had sorted itself out, and for a moment I was very pleased….
Until:
Red line: -I did what Nazer suggested. Refilled to 170 bar and shot until the reg came off. The strings drops from a starting point of some 900 fps and down to roughly 870 fps before the reg goes off duty, and the string rushes back up to some 920 fps. I have neither touched the regulator nor the hammerspring…..
Blue line: Still not changed anything but filled up again to the same level (approx 215 bar) as in the brown string from this morning and kept shooting until the reg came off at roughly 110 bars. What the heck ???? 🙄 😈 🙄
This gun lives a life of its own. It is completely totally utterly unpredictable and heavily jinxed. I am lost in space. I simply don’t understand a thing…….. 🙄 🙄 🙄
But I guess JSB is happy, – also my air supplier should be happy …..
ED on the other hand………..????
What the f….. is going on here ????? 😥
Somebody help me please before I turn completely insane. (it may be too late already, – I know I am mentally deranged………. 😳 😳 😳 )
I need my pills now………
And a drink. A big one………!!! 😳
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Trygve,
Diffrent gauges will give diffrent readings, best way would be as i said, keep them connected to the main tank & take readings while you shoot from the big tank gauge for both rifles.
SO you fill the Edgun to 200, close the filling but keep it connected & shoot a string & record the gauge every 10 shots, do that for each gun.
that way we can fill the formula & get the effeciancy rate for each rifle in FPE/cuin.
You need to try what i told you, which is to fill to lower pressure say 170 Bar, shoot it & than fill again to 150 than shoot it again, just 15 shots or so, i want to know if your getting the first 5 shots higher with 170 & 150 Bar as with 200 Bar.
Naser
I know it is some work, but we all will learn of it…
Thanks,
Robert.
Hi Robert,
I am just as curious aqs you are. BUT as I’ve said before: None of my gauges are accurate enough to be able to give any sort of meaningful reading….
Also I’m not sure I’ll experiment with 300 bars fill quite yet. Be it for the Cricket or the Matadors……
I’m a chicken I know……. 😳
ALSO I would have liked to solve the R3 no 2844 mystery first…….. 😉
Cheers
Trygve 😀
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Zoco,
I made a lot of testing half a year ago about the speed and accuracy and so on…
I put up a chrony with my R2.5 and started testing (now it had a spread of 6 fps over 50 shots).
Some shots went 1″ lower or higher with the same speed measured at the muzzle. EXACT the same speed. Some shots went higher when there was a drop of 5 fps, some went lower with a drop of 4 fps.
Also when comming of the reg, I kept on shooting until until 880. I was only for about 4cm lower, that less then 2″.
Do not believe Chairgun blinded, but test for yourself. Chairgun has some assumption calculated that are not so exact. I still believe that a gun that shoot with an extreem spread of 20 fps is capable of putting the pellets in 1″ max at 100 yards. It’s more about the pellet diameter that is important, and for me it seems JSB is going backwards instead of forward!
Now, i didn’t had the time yesterday to note my complete string but… I remembered the High and Low with 16 grainers and of the F1 and Crombo.
The Crombo was giving exact 20 fps LESS then the F1.
So, high F1: 886fps high Combro: 866fps
low F1: 877 low Combro: 857
so extreme spread of 9 fps over.. 72 shots