EDgun Matador R3 versus Kalibr Cricket, my comparison….
Hi guys,
Warning for those who don’t like images:
This is going to be a thread with lots of graphics….. 😉
As promised, I’ll try to share with you my personal opinion and findings while comparing these beauties:
As some of you may know, I have two Matador Std R3s and I have one Cricket (with access to another one). All are cal.22……
My wait for my Matadors should be well documented on this very forum…..
The Crickets were a part of a group buy masterminded from Europe somewhere. The Crickets were shipped in parts to Norway and reassembled by my good blueprinting friend Egon Olsen. In the process he had to remove a “restrictor” screw that had been put into the guns before shipment. Most probably because of Power limitation rules at origin….
The Crickets arrived with no documents whatsoever. No instructions, – no nothing. I don’t think this is standard procedure though…..
The Cricket weighs less than the R3, – and is approx 5 cm shorter. Not a lot, – but overall it makes the Cricket even easier to handle than the already tiny R3….
The side by side comparison was done from my modest little shooting table at my summerhouse:
– and the shooting range is here, – with my target set up at 46mts:
Why 46 mts ? Simply because I could not pull my shooting stand further back right now. A huge tree has fallen during winter, and all the branches have taken up my space… 👿
First problem: How to fill the f…. Cricket ?
The fillprobe nut is so tiny that a standard foster coupling gasket will not seal. The entire probe is small, – and you fear you may break it while trying to tighten it:
The above (sorry for the image quality) is a comparison between ED’s, Cricket’s and Falcon’s fill probes. You can probably see what I mean….
As I could not make a standard Fostergasket fit, Egon had to make special gaskets that we fitted into the Foster coupling itself. Not an ideal solution, – and I have no clue how long it will last…….. 🙄
On the fill probe: Matador 1, Cricket 0 points.
Air filling:
I honestly dont like any of the solutions that these two manufacturers have chosen………..
The Cricket people have come up with the worst. To expose the hole for the fillprobe, – you have to slide forward the tip of the reservoir. But that stupid tip is retained by a spring, – and slides back with a smack once you let go:
If you’re not careful when taking the fillprobe back out, the tip will spring back and ruin the fill probe O-rings faster than I can say my name….
While filling, the “tip” rests on the previously mentioned small nut. And there’s not a lot clearance. So a bigger nut (for those with lathe skills), – is not going to help you much. A thicker nut might…….
In short: A very stupid filling system, – BUT once you know how to operate it and care is taken, – at least it covers the hole when filling is over.
The Matador does not come with anything to cover the filling hole at all:
I use tape right now, – but a plug of some sort would be good….. 😉
My preferred system would be that of Falcon:
The tip of the reservoir has been turned into a curled “collar” that you rotate to expose the hole. Simple, easy and effective. And few moving parts that may break or go astray……….
Now, I have no idea how much air I can fill into the Cricket, – and the gun gauge certainly does not help much:
I trust the gauge on my fillkit, – and 3000 psi is roughly on the border between green and yellow…….
Points for airfill procedure: Matador 1, Cricket 0. In my opinion….. 😉
Cheers from Trygve 😀
To be continued……….. 😀
(if you so desire…… 😳 )
All Replies
I think I plan my next vacation to wherever you are, Zoco 🙂
Hello Cooljo !
Nice to see you onboard………. 😀
Yepp, – let’s sit back and wait for Maverick’s response……:
I have all the time in the world….. 😉
Life isn’t too bad…….. 😀
Let’s see if he takes the challenge…….. 😉
Cheers
Trygve 😀
A very good idea, Trygve, I entirely support it.
Friend Nik 🙂
All,
I just shot off this email to Maverick:
Let’s see what happens…….. 😉
Cheers
Trygve 😀
There is no problem for me to discuss about his or my guns on the OTHER forums, but to give him a possibility to earn the creditability using MY own forum, which I built — sorry I have no intention to do it. He is a big boy already and should do it himself, if he cannot do it — that is his problem and I have no regret about it.
🙂
Ed
Dear ED,
Point taken and understood……..
This thread is nevertheless about a comparison of two guns. The relationship between the makers themselves is not something the end user would consider much I think.
As it appears that very few reading this site have access to or experience with both guns, – it would be nice to broaden the “input”-base a little.
We’re talking about two very different guns, – both having their strongpoints as well as weaknesses. I’ve tried to point them out to the readers as I see them, and I’ll continue to do so as I gain more experience. Any “input” received I’ll try to filter through my own findings.
Apparently the subject is of a certain interest to a few. The thread is now fast moving towards 15.000 views (in less than two months) which in many ways speaks for itself.
As you yourself have been kind enough to give your own comments via pms as well as postings, – it would in many ways be interesting to hear “the other side” too…..
I’ll contact Maverick directly and invite him onboard.
Let’s see if he takes the challenge…….. 😉
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Explanation is very simple. I am not afraid of the honest competition, but you don’t know the background of the relationships between me and Maverick (the owner of Kalibr company). So I have some issues which I remember well and have no intention to forgot about him and his behavior against me. I build up my brand, I did it for long time, and Maverick, when he came to the market to get his own piece of pie he did some wrong thing to me and my brand. Being unable to build up his own name he followed me, he tried to do everything as I did, step by step, but didn’t reached the level I did. So, he has no contacts with the users, no forum, no feedback and reaction to it. It is bad for the brand, I know. But if the trouble with his business is my problem? No way, taking into consideration our past relationship I would prefer he had more troubles 🙂
There is no problem for me to discuss about his or my guns on the OTHER forums, but to give him a possibility to earn the creditability using MY own forum, which I built — sorry I have no intention to do it. He is a big boy already and should do it himself, if he cannot do it — that is his problem and I have no regret about it.
🙂
Ed
Hi Guys,
I am a bit puzzled now……
ED himself has actively been taking part in this thread with some very valuable information. Either via pms to me or via his own postings.
I put up a link to this thread on the English version of the Russian EDGun forum in the hope that I could get some useful information also from other sources, – and you have seen some of it in this thread.
However some time back ED posted this:
– and since then the flow of information has been “strangeled”.
I have been searching for an English speaking Kalibr forum with no success.
To me this looks like ED wants to control the flow of information on his forum. Which by all means he is entiteled to……….
But I think it is sad.
We’re talking about two very different guns, and according to ED himself he does not fear the competition. He also claims that he produces/sells far more guns than Maverick (the Cricket boss) does…….
So what’s the problem ???
I don’t understand this………… 🙄
Or do I ???
Cheers from Trygve in Oslo 😀
If I have good results, I will start a new topic here. If the whole swaging bullets deal turns out to suck, you won’t see a new topic! 😳
So it sucked then or ???? 😉
I have been busy doing other things……..
Among them taking a ride through Norwegian landscapes with my middle daughter checking out the facilities……
We still have a fair bit of snow:
– but nothing to worry about. Roads turned out to be mostly dry, – and we had a ball with the two guns testing our long range shooting capability. Unfortunately we cannot report on the results. We did not see the impact of the pellet…… 😉 :
On a more serious note, – I have been comparing sound/noice levels…….
Sound is a difficult issue because it varies from one ear to another and not only that. It also varies with angle and distance….
Sound is basically generated by three different sources. One is from the hammer release and impact on the valve stem, – one (the “ping”) may be described as the resonance from the airtube and finally there is the muzzle crack or blast as the pellet leaves the gun…….
Ed has claimed the R3 is as quiet as the Cricket…….
I would say it depends on what you’re listening for…… 😉
The loudness from the hammer/action itself is more noticable in the R3. And no wonder when you know the hammerspring, hammer etc. are heavier/stronger than that of “Lady Cricket”. This is also the sound you hear when you put your cheek on the gun to shoot. That said, – you would probably be the only one noticing (if you at all do). Others a little further away may not notice at all…….
The “ping” is not noticable in any of the guns. At least not in my findings. I know “Ted in Madison” has installed a “depinger” in his R2.5 but I am not sure how much that helped. In the R3/Cricket I would suggest it’s a waste of time to go down that route….
The muzzle blast is a function of air released and speed of pellet on departure. In order to compare I tried to adjust both guns to the same speed level shooting JSB18s…..
“Lady Cricket” has an “oversized” shroud/moderator compared to the R3 silencer. Both moderators have metal baffles, and both work very well indeed. And I think ED is right in his statement that the R3 is just as quiet as the Cricket given the same speed of the pellet……. 😀
For fun I tried to put a HW silencer on the threaded Cricket barrel, – but with no luck. The threads were not standard UNF……….
It is only when you turn up the speed of the R3 that the gun appears more loud than the Cricket. But that is an unfair comparison. The R3 is capable of delivering shot velocities close to supersonic levels, – not so with “Her Ladyship”. Meaning comparison at those levels is impossible…….
That said, both guns are extremely quiet. And if you try not to challenge sound barriers and stay well below “supersonic” levels, – nobody will ever complain about the noice from these guns. The sound of impact from the pellet on whatever target may be more noticable, – but that’s not the fault of the gun….
My daughter has a good ear and I put her at varying distances from the the guns while shooting. I later let her shoot while I put myself in the same positions. Not a very scientific method I agree, – but it gave me the input I wanted……
I can without doubt shoot both guns in very “delicate” environments without risking a visit from the guys in blue because of sound….. 😉
Those of you with a decibel measuring device, – please go out there and check for yourself……… 😀
Cheers from Oslo……
Hoot, Ed sent Mamcrakin and I R2.5 25 long version Matadors that he had turned up to shoot the Ein Jin 35 grain pellets at 950 fps.
The accuracy with them was horrible and the 25.4 JSB shot at 1040 fps. I turned the reg and HST down and shot the JSBs at 950. Back then, I was a power junky. At that speed the air valve rod lasted around 5,000 shots. I turned the speed down to 935 and got around 7,000-8,000 shots before I broke another air valve rod.
I turned the reg and HST down to the 890 range and never broke another air valve rod.
Ed has always said that the 22 and 25 share the same air valve/regulator components, the 25’s reg and HST were just turned up. I recently found out that Tony had a complete 22 cal air valve and regulator assembly that he had got with his first couple of R2.5 22 standard shipments. It was included in his spare parts “kit”. He had had it for 3+ years.
I ordered it and looked it over. The only difference between the older R2.5 22 cal and the R3 25 long is, the R2.5 and R 3 25 cals have a thin aluminum spacer between the air valve rod return spring and the cup that the spring sits in. The 22s don’t have that spacer.
Here is a pic of my R2.5 22 cal standard’s air valve/reg assembly. It also doesn’t have the spacer.
I just got my bullet swaging equipment stuff in and I hope to have a .224 and .257 Hart barrel in 2 more weeks. I know that I am going to have to turn the HST and reg up a lot to shoot the heavy swaged bullets. The stock air valve rod won’t take that for very long and I wanted a spare air valve/regulator housing to modify. Dyotat has it right now and we are coming up with ideas for a stronger air valve.
Kazzz, how about some 45 grain .224 bullets? I just got the swaging stuff set up and I had to try making a few bullets before I had to go to work. Here are a few of my first tries. I can make flat based and hollow based bullets and I can easily make heavier/longer bullets with the swaging press.
From left to right, 18.1 JSB, 2, .224 45 grain swaged bullets, a 25.4 JSB then 2, 32 grain .257 bullets, I pushed the first one thru my non choked LW barrel and then 2, 43 grain swaged bullets.
The .257 will easily push thru the 25 cal LW barrel. The .224 won’t fit my 22 cal non choked LW barrel.
I have to make up around 50, .257 bullets weighing 32, 35, 37, 40, 42, 45 and 50 grains to try this weekend.
If I have good results, I will start a new topic here. If the whole swaging bullets deal turns out to suck, you won’t see a new topic! 😳
All true, We have different wants, but I don’t want to stray from this excellent post on comparing the two bullpups.
I noted in a prior discussion the Cricket was somewhat “lighter” in build than the Edgun. Our friend indicated he thought the Cricket might be happier with a 15gr, rather than an 18gr pellet.
I know Ed put a heavier valve in his .25’s, after Old Goat test bedded the first ever Edgun .25 Matador a few years ago. When Ed agreed to make Old Goat a .25 caliber Matador, he mentioned concern that the .22 valve might not hold up for 40,000 to 50,000 shots, when propelling the heavier.25 caliber pellets. Of course, he has since put in a heavier valve for the .25 calibers. Old Goat did mention he was getting in excess of 10,000 shots on the original valve (if my memory is correct) and he simply bought some extra valve/valve parts to have on hand for what to him, was a simple valve re-build.
I wonder if Kalibr took the extra step with a heavier valve, or are they going “cheap”, and pushing the .22 valve to it’s limits?
Simply put, are they a quality contender, or an Edgun ‘wanna-be”?
When a guy coughs up a lot of money to purchase a pcp from the other side of the world, with no guarantee of parts or repair, he’s got to be cautious. At least Ed has someone in Florida we can go to. Under these conditions, a buyer has to be extremely cautious about quality.
H 😯 😯 T
+1
Dear Hoot,
I think Ed knows already that you and some others want a multishot Matador. I want a .223 matador that shoot slugs out with 950fps.
Other people want … other things.
I think Ed is doing the correct thing at the moment. Focus on quality and let the gun perform even better with minor adjustments on the basis. This is the key to success and not build something new on a not so good base..
Once the Matador is 99% or 100% TOP for Ed, then I think he will add some extra’s that not will influence the greatness of the basic concept/action.
Ed, correct me if I’m wrong, but I like very much this approach of delivering a final 100% correct working product, instead of 20 half working products.
As for competiton. Cricket is produced and sold in Russia for about 3 years or even more. They produce them less number then I do with Matador. I have 6 months waiting line, one can buy a Cricket based on “pay and get” way 🙂
Ed
I like that synthetic Cricket. In caliber .25, that would be an ideal field piece.
As for it being produced outside of Mother Russia, this could be bad news for Eduard, as Kalibr may have intentions of producing and shipping this product world-wide.
Edgun has never had a real competitor in the bullpup market, certainly the Koreans are not currently a threat, but the Cricket has features that have universal appeal.
Perhaps this will be the stimulous to get Ed to release a multi-shot version of his product.
Yours in Senile Servitude:
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 T
PS: NEVER stick a Cricket up your nose hole!!! While the cricket bug will easily fit, the Cricket bullpup will get stuck for sure. Should someone accidentially pull the trigger while the bullpup is stuck, you will “Blow Your Nose!”.
(This has been a nasal passage public safety announcement.)
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Hi guys….
Competition is a dirty word to people who have invested their lives, sweat, and efforts into a product that bears their name. I can fully understand how Ed feels in this matter. If he was less passionate, I would lose respect for him, and his product.
However, this is essentially a bullpups design and performance forum, and it must be allowed to examine all bullpups in depth. We are curious people, and we applaud heated competition, as it’s the very soul of advances in our hobby.
So, we come here with open minds to research, enjoy, and dream of owning the products we read about. The greatness of this forum, and Zocoloco’s postings especially, is the closeup detail that makes “Mentally” owning the gun a possibility. We can virtually feel, smell, observe, dissemble, and do everything we would want do, if the bullpup was in our own hands.
Edgun used to be the only game in town. That has changed over the past five years. Perhaps a more accurate title of this forum should now be “Bullpups of the world”.
Just the rambling thoughts of an old man…
Regards,
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 T