EDIT: Leaky probe on .30 cal EDgun – The FIX is HERE!
Hi guys. Anyone have a few of 5.5mm x 1.5 buna 70 that you can send me?
I’ll pay all the costs. I need them pretty bad and oring store is out of stock.
Peter
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Now I am curious. I will go measure mine now.
Well, the o-ring grooves in mine ARE different, 4.93mm v. 5.03mm (note: I mis-stated that as an inches measurement in my original post, now corrected). And for either of them, a 5.5mm ID oring would not be a correct fit.
Its not that the O ring grooves are different depths, the bolt probes and its mating parts are actually made with a taper to help with a progressive tight seal.
Has anyone actually correctly measured one of the original .30cal breech O rings?
There is a std engineering formula for working out O ring sizes to seating depths and its really not as hit and miss as you might think..
The Orings Ed calls 1.5mm actually correctly measures 1.6mm thick (Russian manufacturing?), they are used in a few applications in the Edgun so Id say this one will be the same. Try the 5.5mm x 1.6mm
I did notice one thing of interest: on my gun, the probe ring groove depths are about .010″ different, with the front one being ~.493 and the rear one being .503. The 3/16×1/16 oring would not fit in the rear groove w/o bulging to much to close properly, but it just barely fits the front groove. I suspect the variation on the groove depth is more than Ed expected and that’s why we are seeing the mismatch with the factory orings and variances in probe leakage for the .30 Matadors.
I believe AC has found the cause of the variation in results that everyone is having, even though they are using the same diameter O-rings! The grooves are not milled the same depth. (Probably depends on who is doing the milling.)
Meanwhile, you guys might try some teflon tape wrap to even up the groove depth. No harm or change, and easy to remove. Saves you from hunting through dozens of O-rings to find a correct fit for front and back!
That’s weird. I have two of those oldies (3/16 x 1/16) and they fit the same in both grooves. As OG said if you measure the 008s they are more like .070/1.78mm thick.
Maybe ask Ed what’s up on that?
I did notice one thing of interest: on my gun, the probe ring groove depths are about .010″ different, with the front one being ~.493 and the rear one being .503. The 3/16×1/16 oring would not fit in the rear groove w/o bulging to much to close properly, but it just barely fits the front groove. I suspect the variation on the groove depth is more than Ed expected and that’s why we are seeing the mismatch with the factory orings and variances in probe leakage for the .30 Matadors.
O.k., I have a leak free probe. I ended up using a 5.1×1.6 mm in the back groove, and one marked 3/16×1/16 inch (found in an old package) in the front groove.
I did notice one thing of interest: on my gun, the probe ring groove depths are about .10 mm different, with the front one being ~4.93 and the rear one being 5.03mm. The 3/16×1/16 oring would not fit in the rear groove w/o bulging to much to close properly, but it just barely fits the front groove. I suspect the variation on the groove depth is more than Ed expected and that’s why we are seeing the mismatch with the factory orings and variances in probe leakage for the .30 Matadors.
[corrected inch/mm mistake]
You mean the lead like the lead we are pushing in the breech with our fingers? 😯 They smell kind of like rubber when I open the kit which is at least five years old and contains 407 orings for $10. lol I wouldn’t use them internally, of course, but the are fine for the Moderator cover and bolt probe so far.
We have 13″ of snow plus significant drifting and it is up to -2 F. 😛
I’ve told these forum members time and again that you only look stupid! Keep those suckers well lubed. I have Harbor Freight, and I’m betting that’s not premium material they are made of. I’ve been told they have lead in them. Why just yesterday Walmart had to recall an entire shipment in China of donkey meat because it had been contaminated with traces of fox (dog) meat!!!
It’s getting to where a guy doesn’t know who to trust!
H 😯 😯 t
PS: Colder than a witche’s knuckles down here…no snow, but 10F and windy. Damn Canadians!!!
Slide the O ring over it, trim any excess, and you can gradually find out how many wraps it takes to bring the O ring up to seal against the breech walls.
Properly trimmed, it should last a good while, at least till someone nails the exact diameter O ring needed.
Just a thought that’s worked for me before. Works on fill probes with O rings too!
The man…the Legend…
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 t
Dang hoot you are on top of things. I should of thought of that but instead tore a thin strip from the side of the tape and built the bottom out. Took a try or two to get the first wrap to hold but worked well.
Frank
I’ve told these forum members time and again that you only look stupid! Keep those suckers well lubed. I have Harbor Freight, and I’m betting that’s not premium material they are made of. I’ve been told they have lead in them. Why just yesterday Walmart had to recall an entire shipment in China of donkey meat because it had been contaminated with traces of fox (dog) meat!!!
It’s getting to where a guy doesn’t know who to trust!
H 😯 😯 t
PS: Colder than a witche’s knuckles down here…no snow, but 10F and windy. Damn Canadians!!!
I finished an entire tin of pellets on the AS-008s this morning and they are doing great so far… Harbor Freight to the rescue. 🙂
One trick that usually works, if you are having trouble finding that last thousandth of an inch is to put a wrap or two of teflon tape around the probe and push it into the O ring groove.
Slide the O ring over it, trim any excess, and you can gradually find out how many wraps it takes to bring the O ring up to seal against the breech walls.
Properly trimmed, it should last a good while, at least till someone nails the exact diameter O ring needed.
Just a thought that’s worked for me before. Works on fill probes with O rings too!
The man…the Legend…
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 t
I ordered some 5.1×1.6 o-rings as well. Currently I have 5.5 x 1.5 on the bolt probe. I put some thin strips of Teflon tape in the bolt probe grooves with the supplied 5 x 1.5 to try and expand them. It did improve things but still did not seal.
I left that bit of Teflon tape in the grooves when i put the 5.5 x 1.5 on and they fit snug both on the probe and closing the bolt.
The bolt probe is not leaking now but i still feel a puff on my cheek coming from the first vertical slit in front of the pellet loading opening.
I’m thinking i must have the transfer port seal askew and have to take my gun apart to check that.
Awesome!
Tedd OG should get some 5.1×1.6 tomorrow and try them out. I have a good feeling that they will work for him too.
No wonder the AS – 008 ones work so well if they are .070″. You can feel a very subtle resistance as the orings slide in the last bit but not much. There is no air leaking whatsoever now with a tissue test and it is nice and quiet. Acourvil still had a little leak with the 5.1×1.6 which I will get on Monday so they seem to work in some guns but I wonder if they will with a bit of wear. I think the 008s I have are 70s and definitely softer than the 90s I have been trying. I shot about 80 pellets on the 008s today. The Standard 30 is now very quiet and I think mine is set on the high side compared to some of the other Standards given the short barrel and velocity (about 870 fps). About a dozen sparrows were not so happy ( we got 13″ of snow and the feeders were loaded with them). 😯 If these orings last even a thousand shots I will be happy given it takes 5 minutes to change them and I must have 20 of them in one kit alone. It’s becoming one real nice compact hunting machine. 🙂
The spare O rings that Ed includes in the package of spare O rings are still working for me. F&D is sending me a couple of the 5.1 X 1.6 mm O rings for me to try.
I did some conversions for some commonly available Metric O rings.
5.0 X 1.5 mm = .196” ID X .314” OD .059” CS
5.1 X 1.6 mm = .200” ID X .327” OD .062” CS
5.5 X 1.5 mm = .216” ID X .334” OD .059” CS
McMaster Carr has these 90 Duro Buna N SAE O rings for sale cheap and one of them might work.
5308T117 is a SAE-008 standard size and measures
.176” ID X .316” OD .070” CS
5308T118 is a SAE -009 standard size and measures
.208” ID X .348” OD .070” CS
Each of them are $2.32 for 100 + shipping.
When one of us comes up with an O ring size that seals and lasts, I will place an order with Sealing Specialties for 500 of them in 90 Duro Buna N and send a bunch to each of us 30 cal owners.
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Ok I just measured grooves on my .30 probe and got 4.93mm for the front groove and 5.03mm for rear groove.