FrankEdstein Part 2 or Zocoloco & Why He’s Plum Loco!
Below is the thread I quoted from in its exact unedited format. Take a look at the wear and tear on a brand new Edgun R3M breech and mag, then you tell me that’s acceptable. I highly doubt it.
I’ve spent some time in my basement. Don’t know where to start really……
I have had some 50 pellets through now, – and these were my notes:
I started at around 195 bars and used my Crombo for the speed measurements. I noted the pressure after every ten shots, – an it appears my R3M cal.22 consumes some 12/13 bars per 10 shots. I write like a pig, but people with a goood imagination may be able to read the velocity numbers I hope…….. đł Out of the box between 925 and 900 fps with the vast majority around between 910/920.
I used the ms-function with proper indexing, and it never failed once ! It felt a little rough in the beginning, but after a few shots I forgot all about that. It didn’t feel very different from a lot of other guns I have been shooting.
I never removed the mag. It stayed in there all the time. I realized that the mag reveals four open slots as it rotates, – and I simply recharged after every four shots via these. Refreshingly simple as the mag is somewhat hard to pull out. But as it happens, – there’s honestly no need to take it out. Just recharge as I did. It works beautifully……. :8:
Hawkeyes may notice that the mag has been “filed down” quite a bit and gone is anodizing and friends around the edges at the back of the mag. This happens because the mag is being squeezed against the back wall of the mag slot as it rotates. What squeezes it is the spring loaded ball bearing that lines up the mag for each shot:
This ball bearing is a tough little fellow with quite some force behind it. Not only does it push the mag firmly against the back wall of the mag chamber, it also gives the mag some beating as it rotates from one shot position to the next:
You should be able to see how the anodizing is being filed off on the rim of the mag.
There seems to be some grinding going on also around the center of the mag on both sides. Here is the other side of it:
However that’s not the end of the grinding story. I was very surprised to find that the outside surface of the mag also seemed a bit “tired” and “scruffy” after today’s session. Inspection of the mag slot in the breech revealed an edge on the inside that most likely shouldn’t have been there
No big deal as it will be grinded off and polished by the mag during the break-in period……. đ
However, there’s a lot of friction in this mag set up. Some of it will go away eventually, – but not all How to lubricate this part I don’t know yet. Aluminium on aluminium is not easy, and added to that is the risk of getting some lube into the pellet slots and further into the barrel. On that path there’s an O-ring in the forward breech that must be passed too. And O-rings don’t like anything but silicone grease………
I may want to try some silicone spray glider that dries like a thin film on whatever material. It’s designed to reduce the friction of rigging, zippers etc. on a sailboat and should probably do the trick here too……..
My gun is of the MK I type, – and the breech/mag system is already obsolete. As I understand it, the versions shipped to the US is of the MK II variant. I’ve never seen one of those but will soon. Apparently the mags and the indexing system may have been modified a little and for the better. The little nasty ballbearing that pushes the mag against the wall, has been moved inwards towards the center of the mag. That should mean less distance for the mag to rotate against it between shots. It should also mean that the cam that indexes the mag would need less power to do so as it gets a longer “arm” to work with…..
We’ll see…… đ
Oh, – I forgot to tell you how this little bastard shoots. Below is tonight’s session on “paper”. There are five 10 shot groups shot from a sandbag at a distance of 50 m (55yds). The groups should speak for themselves:
Cheers
Trygve in Oslo đ
Hello to all my friends and the ass kissers who wonât see this because they blocked meâŚ
Regarding Edgun R3M: http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28318&hilit=frankedstein
For those of you who are not aware of and to recap who exactly are the the Members of the ‘Ed Ass Kissing Club’ or as I like to term them, the self-absorbed, addicted, distracted and ignorant Edgun internet groupies consists of:
Ridetoeat, Coda, the Wing Nut NZ loser, The childish Krille from Sweden, Hoot, The goat screwer, Ed of course, Loco too, Synopsys, Knifemaker, and Iâll update this as I remember the others.
This post is not for the âEdgun Ass Kisser Clubâ members and thank heaven they won’t be responding because they can’t see this thread. I am merely wanting to advise and inform those of you who can think for yourselves and are open-minded enough to see when something is crap and you’re being screwed.
I know many of you have missed me and my accurate, right to the point and amusing posts but we had a very hectic Christmas as business was booming. We finally caught up around the middle of January. I also bought myself a new truck for a Christmas present so Iâve been entertained with that project. Airguns are cheap compared to what you can do to modify a truck today!
The weather is beautiful, 80 degrees this week, life is good, adventurous and fun and I do hope it is for you as well.
Before I get into the actual post, let me make this statement:
Imagine buying a new vehicle and finding out that the drivers door fits too tightly into the frame. Each time you open the door, the paint chips and the door is very hard to open. You then come to the revelation that you don’t need the door because you can enter the vehicle through the window. Now, would that be acceptable? Of course not but the ass-kissing club members, Loco in particular, would have you believe that this is acceptable when owning a $2000 Edgun. And then to add insult to injury, you make this issue aware to everyone and people tell you that it’s acceptable and quit complaining and just use the window to get into the vehicle. Sounds ridiculous, well read on…
I thought Iâd post a long overdue comment that ‘Zocoloco’ made or as I like to call him, just plain ‘Loco’ regarding his beloved Edgun in this thread:
OK, here we goâŚ.
Loco, youâre off your rocker! Do you have your head crammed so far up Edâs butt that you donât see how ridiculous you sound protecting his piece of crap gun!
First asinine statement and I quote:
âI never removed the mag. It stayed in there all the time. [b] I realized that the mag reveals four open slots as it rotates, – and I simply recharged after every four shots via these. Refreshingly simple as the mag is somewhat hard to pull out. But as it happens, – there’s honestly no need to take it out. Just recharge as I did. It works beautifullyâ[/b]
Loco, the gun is designed to remove the mag not refill it each time you see 4 empty slots. If thatâs the case why buy a multi shot! The âmag is somewhat hard to pull outâ is the poor design of the breach and mag itself that you are defending. The thing was designed to fill the mag, load it into the gun, shoot till empty, remove, and replace; not fill after every 4 shots. Incredible statement.
Second asinine statement and I quote:
âHawkeyes may notice that the mag has been “filed down” quite a bit and gone is anodizing and friends around the edges at the back of the mag. This happens because the mag is being squeezed against the back wall of the mag slot as it rotates. What squeezes it is the spring loaded ball bearing that lines up the mag for each shotâ
Loco, âfiled downâ is a satisfactory appearance and function of this flawed model! I own other guns with similar mags and they donât look âfiled downâ. It a design flaw in a $2000 gun.
Third asinine statement and I quote:
âThis ball bearing is a tough little fellow with quite some force behind it. Not only does it push the mag firmly against the back wall of the mag chamber, [b]it also gives the mag some beating as it rotates from one shot position to the nextâ[/b]
Loco, once again this is a design flaw. The gun was designed by an amateur looking to pop out another model to us unsuspecting buyers. Once again, this is a design flaw. I own many other guns with similar mags that operate smoothly without the difficulty this Edgun model presents. And you think that taking a “beating” is an acceptable operating procedure and acceptable design! You are plum loco.
Fourth asinine statement and I quote:
âThere seems to be some grinding going on also around the center of the mag on both sidesâ
Loco, this is an understatement! And you think âgrindingâ on a brand new gun is acceptable and a ingenious design? The gun is flawed as is the design.
Fifth asinine statement and I quote:
âHowever that’s not the end of the grinding story. I was very surprised to find that the outside surface of the mag also seemed a bit “tired” and “scruffy” after today’s session. Inspection of the mag slot in the breech revealed an edge on the inside that most likely shouldn’t have been thereâ
Loco, so now there is a âburrâ on the inside of the breech that âmost likely shouldn’t have been thereâ. Incredible and you donât see anything wrong with that and accept it. Well, I donât! The gun is flawed and should have never been released to the general public until these issues had been resolved.
Sixth asinine statement and I quote:
âNo big deal as it will be grinded off and polished by the mag during the break-in periodâ
Loco, âNo big dealâ huh. Youâre a pinhead to accept mediocrity when paying $2000 for a gun.
Seventh asinine statement and I quote:
âHowever, there’s a lot of friction in this mag set up. Some of it will go away eventually, – but not allâ
Loco, so some of it will go away âeventuallyâ as in when? A month, six months, six years? Is one supposed to suffer through that period with a $2000 gun? And, what is someone to do with the “friction” that does not “go away eventuallyâ as you stated? So we’re just supposed to accept it and pretend it isn’t there because of our love for Ed. You and the others can kiss his ass, I won’t.
Iâm done and want to wish all of you a great week ahead.
All Replies
Yes, we all know MG had issues with the gun that could have been handled better. But why do we have to be schooled on the subject month after month after month? Enough already. WE GET IT! Acting like a broken record isn’t helping anybody. Enough is enough! đ
And no one has to leave this thread. We were here on it BEFORE you butted in. You are the intruder MG. No one gave you the right to tell ANYONE to leave this thread. You run nothing here except your damned mouth. Over and over and over again. It’s getting so OLD! đż
P. S
If you’re thinking of a snappy comeback… Save it, you’re still on the block list! Have a nice one
Dr.:evil:
Hey MG nice to see you back here really missed your ranting. By the way your girlfriend is also back but under new pseudonym, Dr.Cricket, thought you wanna know…
Dr.:evil:
well put PippoâŚ. Even though you hate to admit it, You’ll catch more flies with honey than you would with vinegar.
Lets Put this to rest MG no need to be miserable and pissed off anymore We all get ur point. I have held back here⌠just observing this time đ . I do believe that if you had went about this differently from the get go u would be right there with the rest of the EDCLUB members..
Hi MG,
the only thing I can tell is that you are right, the faulty gun should have been replaced or refunded immediately, with or without a rail mounted and ED did very wrong by starting to find arguments not to do it.
I’m saying this from the beginning, I mean the thread and the posts are there. ED did wrong but in my opinion you did wrong too. Instead of giving him a second chance to repair, you started name calling and when people is attacked it stops to behave normal.
I think ED regrets his behaviour as I think you do too but apparently now it’s too late.
I fully agree with you that the R3M MKI shouldn’t have been released, look what happend to Zocoloco’s R3M magazine, it almost dissappeard after 50 shots (without removing it) and what will happen at the next 50 shots? The project was not yet mature. I don’t know anything about the MKII version, according to the owners it works, good for them.
A lot of european customers (who are paying in EUR and therefore a lot more) have bought the really overpriced R3M and in version MKI and I think a lot of them are pi..ed off more than you US friends.
Certainly the R3M MKI did not good to ED’s business, whether he acknowledges this or not, it’s just a fact.
So where are we going from here?
Let people that wants to buy EDGUN buy them, you have done your part by at least informing them about certain risks, facts not inventions but then if they want to go ahead please let them go.
I can tell you only one thing, you can’t harm ED’s business (and I know you don’t want to) more than he did already himself by releasing the R3M MKI and by not assisting properly one of his customers.
ATB (and try to get over this) đ
I agree with MG. I am very disappointed in my purchase and expected much better. If shipping would have been refunded I would have sent the gun back. Maybe shipping would have been and I should have looked into it more. Too late now, gun has already been across the country a couple times so I have too much into it now.
I do believe so… If I’m not mistaken he was a charter member of the edclub.
Doesn’t MG have several Ed guns? And he is specifically pissed on his newest one only?
Everyone that has any experience with airguns knows this….the new models ALWAYS have issues big or small. We’ve seen it countless times and I don’t have to mention brands and or models, we all know. Unfortunately sometimes the excitement of owning the latest and greatest is too much and we jump on the bandwagon anyway….still knowing better.
I’ve seen this mentality thrive across different airgun forums and to be honest unfortunately it’s starting to match the integrity of our country……..It’s my turn to coin a phrase now so I’m going to call this mentality “Costco syndrome”. Yep, MG has it and he has it bad. Example…..I buy something and either I don’t like it, it doesn’t work exactly how I’d like, it’s slightly scratched, etc…I just take it back and it doesn’t matter what “I’ve” done to it since “I’ve” taken it out of the box, I could drill it or paint it or scuff it, Costco will take it back.
I see this on the yellow forum all day everyday. “Hey guys my new gun from XYZ leaks”……number one answer…..take it back!!!!!!!
“Hey guys, I’m afraid to buy this new compressor from XYZ because it might break in three years and then I’ll have to box it up and ship it back and that could be expensive”. Notice the mentality of not wanting to lift a finger to help yourself.
Here are the symptoms of Costco syndrome:
You buy something and it doesn’t work you immediately feel like a VICTIM.
You have an uncontrollable urge to immediately get back in your car with or without the receipt and take it back
You want your money back plus you want your butt kissed too because you were a victim of a bad product/ Where’s my half off coupon for next time?
All your life you blame others for problems never once stepping up to try to solve one yourself
You lack mechanical aptitude and also lack any urge to learn by making mistakes….others make mistakes I don’t!!!!!!
You aren’t responsible for your actions…..no one bent your arm to spend your hard earned money on XYZ, you made the choice
Anyway, I think you guys get it. MG didn’t get his way and now the agenda is to hurt Ed in any way he can. Will he?? He may sway some noobs with Costco syndrome to not buy an Edgun but that’s not that big of a deal. Will it hurt Ed’s bottom line. NO>
The people that buy Edguns know there isn’t a nipple to run to every time there is a problem. You either seek out those that do know and learn from them or give it a try yourself. If you’re the type that needs a huge network of customer service reps available 24/7 then don’t buy and Edgun, it’s not for you.
I know that MG has mechanical aptitude as he is modifying his new truck, but I’ll bet at least one of those Mods didn’t bolt on just right or something had to be filed or was missing pieces etc…..Anyone that modifies anything knows this happens. The question is what do you do about it?? Do you file it and try to fix it or do you take it back???
I come to this forum to learn. I like to try and fix things and if I can’t I seek out those that do know and try and learn from them. My first reaction is always “what can I do about it?”. I think there are some great engineering minds on here that enjoy taking problems on head first and they get great satisfaction from doing so. I compare them to Marines….”Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome”. I’m not saying that they enjoy fixing a gun that isn’t perfect, but they definitely don’t play the VICTIM role.
I personally like Ed’s guns and know I’m taking a risk every time I buy one. I respect Ed and what he has developed but to be honest I think I respect Ernest, Wingman, Ride, Tedd, Zoco, even more as they are providing ideas, solutions, and information that helps improve our sport and passion in a positive direction rather than a negative one like MG.
I’ve rambled long enough…..Here’s my favorite line from the movie “Red Tails” that seems to fit this topic like a glove………….
Experience is a cruel teacher. First you get the exam, then you learn the lesson.
Rant OUT,
Guy Z
I donât have the time but anyone can shoot your analysis full of holes. This has nothing to do with what you term ‘Costco Syndrome’.
No one is trying to hurt Ed, he does a fine job of that all by himself without any outside influence
You brought up the comparison of buying a new truck and modifying it. It just so happens that yes, there was a major problem with a set of $4k wheels. I ordered them, they arrived 3 weeks later by freight truck. I opened the box and the wheels were not machined properly by the CNC. The person who programed the CNC didnât do a complete tool path; bottom-line they werenât right. I phoned the company and was asked to send a picture. I did and within minutes they phoned me back with a resolution:
1) Keep the wheels and credit $400
2) Return he wheels for a new set
I opted for #2. They sent a truck to pick up the wheels at their expense. They called me when the wheels were returned. Typical wait time is 3 to 4 weeks for these wheels. They said Iâd have the wheels next week as they didnât want me to wait for their mistake. That’s customer service! They paid return shipping back to me. The wheels were perfect. That is customer service by a company who values their customers and is ethical.
Furthermore, you make some truly ridiculous statements:
âthe new models ALWAYS have issues big or smallâ
My Krickets worked right out of the box as did all my Daystates, Theobens, Theobens modded by AZ after I got them back, (never a problem), FX, etc.
Ed shipped guns with major design flaws. Try to get that through your Edclub mentality.
âI compare them to Marines….”Improvise, Adapt, and Overcomeâ
Iâm not a marine. I am a consumer and I donât have to improvise, adapt nor overcome the short coming of a product. The product should be right and as advertised to the masses. It should work.
I personally like Ed’s guns and know I’m taking a risk every time I buy oneâ
I didnât take a risk with his first model nor his second one. Both worked as they should have. I donât mind tweaking a trigger or other parts but I am not going to redesign obvious design flaws. That was not what I signed up for.
ânegative one like MGâ
Once again youâre a wannabe Edclub member and contribute nothing useful to this conversation. There is negativity because the manufacturer released a faulty product. What part of that do you and the rest of the Edclub members find so difficult to comprehend. There is nothing positive about spending $2000 for a gun with design flaws.
Regards
LarryW đ
OOPS!!
I shot the horse, turned the dog into shoes and sold the EdGun! 
GuyZ
You compare modding a new truck to fixing an EdGun, but thats apples to oranges. Modding a new truck is not fixing, and if I bought a new truck (I’m a mechanic by trade) and it didn’t work properly you damn right I would take it back to the dealer and let them fix it. And if I bought a new gun and it doesn’t work properly why should I need to stop what I’m doing to fix something I bought (new). Now if it was a used gun then I would feel differently and accept that there may be issues with said item. And before people say but MG installed a sling stud (modded) so technically not new any more, well thats like saying I changed the tires and rims on my brand new truck and now my lights stopped working. Did I technically modify the truck?? yes but in no way did it have anything to do with the issue I’m having. Would the dealership fix the issue yes and you can guarantee they would expedite what ever solution was chosen and not tell them to just “drive it” it will work its self out. I work for Rush Peterbilt Truck Center in So Cal and believe me I’ve seen these situations arise and seen how they get handled.
Now the short version of GuyZ’s Rant. If you can’t shoe your own horse, shoot your own dog or fix your own EdGun, you should’t own any of them!!!
Regards
LarryW đ
Boy MG sure keeps things spiced up around here. I think it’s obvious he has an agenda. I do feel bad that he experienced a problem with his new Edgun but to be honest MG has the wrong mentality to be buying an Edgun in the first place…..especially a new model.
Everyone that has any experience with airguns knows this….the new models ALWAYS have issues big or small. We’ve seen it countless times and I don’t have to mention brands and or models, we all know. Unfortunately sometimes the excitement of owning the latest and greatest is too much and we jump on the bandwagon anyway….still knowing better.
I’ve seen this mentality thrive across different airgun forums and to be honest unfortunately it’s starting to match the integrity of our country……..It’s my turn to coin a phrase now so I’m going to call this mentality “Costco syndrome”. Yep, MG has it and he has it bad. Example…..I buy something and either I don’t like it, it doesn’t work exactly how I’d like, it’s slightly scratched, etc…I just take it back and it doesn’t matter what “I’ve” done to it since “I’ve” taken it out of the box, I could drill it or paint it or scuff it, Costco will take it back.
I see this on the yellow forum all day everyday. “Hey guys my new gun from XYZ leaks”……number one answer…..take it back!!!!!!!
“Hey guys, I’m afraid to buy this new compressor from XYZ because it might break in three years and then I’ll have to box it up and ship it back and that could be expensive”. Notice the mentality of not wanting to lift a finger to help yourself.
Here are the symptoms of Costco syndrome:
You buy something and it doesn’t work you immediately feel like a VICTIM.
You have an uncontrollable urge to immediately get back in your car with or without the receipt and take it back
You want your money back plus you want your butt kissed too because you were a victim of a bad product/ Where’s my half off coupon for next time?
All your life you blame others for problems never once stepping up to try to solve one yourself
You lack mechanical aptitude and also lack any urge to learn by making mistakes….others make mistakes I don’t!!!!!!
You aren’t responsible for your actions…..no one bent your arm to spend your hard earned money on XYZ, you made the choice
Anyway, I think you guys get it. MG didn’t get his way and now the agenda is to hurt Ed in any way he can. Will he?? He may sway some noobs with Costco syndrome to not buy an Edgun but that’s not that big of a deal. Will it hurt Ed’s bottom line. NO>
The people that buy Edguns know there isn’t a nipple to run to every time there is a problem. You either seek out those that do know and learn from them or give it a try yourself. If you’re the type that needs a huge network of customer service reps available 24/7 then don’t buy and Edgun, it’s not for you.
I know that MG has mechanical aptitude as he is modifying his new truck, but I’ll bet at least one of those Mods didn’t bolt on just right or something had to be filed or was missing pieces etc…..Anyone that modifies anything knows this happens. The question is what do you do about it?? Do you file it and try to fix it or do you take it back???
I come to this forum to learn. I like to try and fix things and if I can’t I seek out those that do know and try and learn from them. My first reaction is always “what can I do about it?”. I think there are some great engineering minds on here that enjoy taking problems on head first and they get great satisfaction from doing so. I compare them to Marines….”Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome”. I’m not saying that they enjoy fixing a gun that isn’t perfect, but they definitely don’t play the VICTIM role.
I personally like Ed’s guns and know I’m taking a risk every time I buy one. I respect Ed and what he has developed but to be honest I think I respect Ernest, Wingman, Ride, Tedd, Zoco, even more as they are providing ideas, solutions, and information that helps improve our sport and passion in a positive direction rather than a negative one like MG.
I’ve rambled long enough…..Here’s my favorite line from the movie “Red Tails” that seems to fit this topic like a glove………….
Experience is a cruel teacher. First you get the exam, then you learn the lesson.
Rant OUT,
Guy Z
:dito:
Are there any cases you’d recommend?
Yep! I´ll fix you a link. Luckily the Shop is in UK so no need to import. It´s a shame these don´t come with bags as delivered.
Thank you :smilen:
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Well when it comes to the dribble of some of the members here I never felt the need to add anybody to the ignore list until recently…and it’s not MG…me and him may not see eye to eye on Chinese products but I do agree to his views on Ed’s practices as a business owner are wrong.
But their is a member of the edclub that just kisses ass beyond anyone I’ve seen…and it’s gotten soo annoying that I had to add him đż
Shit I mean people where mad at Donny for talking too much…lol but this guy makes a new thread ever 15 mins cause he feels the need to be seen on the top of the thread list….it just sucks that I still see his name even tho he’s on the ignore list. :angrymob: