Gun Expo Tradgedy, Accidental Death.
Father takes 8 year old son/s to a Machine gun Expo/Fun Shoot. Father let’s 8 year old son, Shoot a fully Automatic Uzi Sub machine gun. The boy shoots at a pumpkin and looses control of the Uzi and shoots himself in the head. The Uzi flips up all the way over to shoot backwards.
Now the local sheriff and the 2 Expo sponsors are being charged with manslaughter. No negligence charge against the Father. Who’s at fault here, would you let your 8 year old son shoot a full Auto handgun? Most adults can’t control a Full Automatic handgun! This is a tragedy, and shooter lacked proper training. Who’s responsible for a minor, and or his/her personal safety/gun safety? Wonder if they posted “Enter at Your Own Risk”?
Being a minor and not being responsible for his actions, why shouldn’t it fall to the parents/guardian? I think the shooter should be responsible, but being a minor, what do you think?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BOY_UZI_DEATH?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
Sam 🙁
All Replies
Target shooting, pest control and hunting or all fine for a kid so long as they are properly supervised and able to do so safely which would come under the umbrella of proper supervision…. dont think that need’s anyone to put an age limit on it except the parent.
(Fully Automatic are not usually used for target/pest/hunting and are illegal for a child to use already… kid shouldnt have been given it to shoot, and the father should have used his own judgment rather than blindly trust some fool he doesnt know)
Oh, how can we dis-associate a firearm from deadly force? I think I know what you meant Yellow but the respect of potentially deadly force is often taught to a mind that doesn’t reason and only knows ‘I was told not to.’ The link I posted above is a bit lengthy and redundant in places but, there is wisdom intermixed with the dullness of research.
Age limit? Your kids were probably raised with rules and limitations but many of the past 2 generations raised themselves in homes or broken homes of permissive parents. Now a lot of the kids are in prison when it should have been there parents that neglected to give them a proper and moral rearing. Some 6 year old’s can drive a car so is it safe or should we set some kind of limit in attempt to protect society from the uneducated that doesn’t realize there may be deadly consequences?
if a group has clear issues that most in that group cover for or outright deny folks need to spotlight it
when this shit with Fleurry happened a few of us that were neck deep in the NFA world at one time or another looked into it as like here everyone was blaming the dad
turned out the father was clueless and was depending on people to paraphrase you that were qualified and had experience to handle those situations to determine the safety of the boy shooting the gun
facts are most cops these days are simply not Gun people
actually they lifted most of the roadblocks to folks with records joining up
its on a case bt case basis but just like the age limit being raised we need warm bodies for the sandbox
look into it, its going on
“no the truth is they dont like them , but trust me most people respect them willingly or not . People dont pick fights or tell them to fuckthemselves anymore than they would a biker gang in a bar ”
man that sure sounds like fear to me HO
look buddy respect is freely given
if it isnt extended that way its abject fear and you are just kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
and yeah I will tell Bikers, Gangbangers and even the Popo to go fuck themselves if they are out of line
you earn my respect…its not Cotton Candy
sorry bud 😉
Lurker,
My son shot his first porcupine a day before his 6th birthday with my silenced Ruger. I helped him steady it.
My daughter shot her first deer while sitting on my lap out the window of my pickup truck, with a Chinese copy of the CZ/bruno, thru the heart at 70 yards, her first kill was with a Chipmunk 22 on a porcupine chewing on one of my house supports at 5 years of age.
My son went on to kill several people, he works at a hospital and goes to school full time. He is one of the most kindest, caring, advanced souls I know, and BTW it was in Iraq that he did his killing as a Marine squad leader, he is out now with a 40% disability.
My daughter is an avowed Budist, she carries the Mdl 23 Glock I killed the bear with in my house.
I put as much credence in modern phychiatry as I do steaming bullshit, if you want to talk assclowns, these guys were doing shock treatment on our parents generation, and that was acceptable and nothing but torture.
I am proud of them both. And it just goes to show you can’t put lables or group people in catagories like modern phychiatry does with their definitons.
I am a retired LEO, I know both very good and very bad examples. Fatties in uniform have always discussed me, they look like 10 cents worth of shit in a nickle bag IMO.
Your guys are both correct and you are wrong at the same time.
But for the most part, I’ll have to put my money on Riverside.
Roachcreek
depends on the State YN
my understanding was that State law was a factor in this case as it outright prohibited allowing a child of that age to fire a handgun
here in the Midwest that wouldn’t be an issue in most States
Seen very very young children on the firing line at the Knob Creek Machinegun Shoot south of Louisville KY
there was a girl there that used to compete with a highly modified M11/9 Smg…think she started at 7 or 8 and was waxing most of the grown men before she even hit 10 years of age.
most of the kids I grew up with already had killed a number of Deer before they hit 10 years of age
a few starting as young as 4 years old
Again for me it’s all about the individual
then why do you insist on insulting groups of people instead of individuals?
I can care less about that jackoff sheriff , but you threw me right in there with it
just because some assclown has a tin star on his chest doesn’t automatically confer my respect for said assclown
you are likely one of those cats that feel it wrong to be critical of Obama as its being disrespectful of the Office of the President
No,but you seem to think you understand people you have never met
to me, that’s retardspeak
and to to me, that’s retardspeak
I don’t respect Anyone over title/profession
again it’s who they are & how they do what they do
as far as being a serviceman or woman
again your job, current or former means nothing
no actually it does , it means I was qualified and had experience to handle those situations
American prisons are chock full of Veterans (and so are police departments)& there are a fair number of servicemen doing extended bits in Military prisons as well.
(that doesnt mean anything there are laywers there too )
add to that the significant numbers of folks over the years that dodged the crowbar hotel by agreeing to join the armed forces
they havent done that since the 60’s (maybe a few cases )well it kind of dampens any automatic respect
listen it s quite clear by your own words you have little respect anyone
one of my favorite County LEOs growing up only went into the military just prior to WWII to dodge a lengthy stay in prison after being busted for a series of Armed Robberies. He claimed the Army saved his life & I do believe him.
He was a fat bastard that tipped the scales at well over 400#s and stood a bit over 6’5…that was one pile of pork there 😀
that has nothing to do with the issue . just because you know a few fat fuck assclowns you throw them in all the same basket?
anyways I tend on seeing everyone being equal and everyone starts off getting the same level of respect from me that they extend
act like a jackass that thinks you are my Lord & Master I will probably treat you like shit
I didnt tell you to do a god dam thing, and you disrespected me
most LEOs are not that way but a fair number certainly are
all in all cops are little different from the members of a motorcycle gang
most just ride their bikes and cause no problems
no They’re a lot different , one haveing to enforce the law as a professional and putting up with fucking idiots on daily or hourly basis while haveing to keep thier kool or face loseing thier job house wife . the other can crack someones fucking head for looking at them wrong.
a few see the patch on the back of their piss stained leather as a badge of office and you best be respecting me
and when those few fools fuck up the rest of the club bails them out of the clink or otherwise protects the offal
One dervies thier respect from fear , the other derives it from the athority from the state or federal goverment put in place by the people .
a custom Knucklehead and a shitty patch on your greasy leather don’t get my respect.
I dont belive anyone gets your respect
truth is HO most folks don’t respect LE either
no the truth is they dont like them , but trust me most people respect them
willingly or not . People dont pick fights or tell them to fuckthemselves anymore than they would a biker gang in a bar
like a greasy biker or urban black Gangsta you may be confusing Fear with actual Respect
No I think you clearly are.
there ies a difference you know 😉
Hey Im not going to change your mind about your feelings on LEO’s. You obviously had some experience with some bad ones
I just wanted you to extend a little common courtesy when your on a public forum . by being specific about the people your talking about , once you include a group in your insults , your opening up a huge can of worms by insulting the group and not the individual
But I dont think your capable of that .
Why automatically connect someone shooting a firearm with deadly force?
Target shooting, pest control and hunting or all fine for a kid so long as they are properly supervised and able to do so safely which would come under the umbrella of proper supervision…. dont think that need’s anyone to put an age limit on it except the parent.
(Fully Automatic are not usually used for target/pest/hunting and are illegal for a child to use already… kid shouldnt have been given it to shoot, and the father should have used his own judgment rather than blindly trust some fool he doesnt know)
At what age does a child develop the moral fortitude to differentiate the consequences of the use of deadly force?
In other words, at what age is it appropriate to expose a child to the power to kill?
There are studies of this age of discretion or moral fortitude such as Kohlberg’s Six Stages: http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kohlberg.htm
It would be slightly different for each child but research shows how a child perceives right and wrong has definite stages of development. These stages vary by experience of consequences such as death of a close friend or family member.
However, some societies greatly delay this moral development by teaching hatred.
Anyway, in the U.S. I would think that the age at which a child could begin to be exposed to the use of deadly weapons should be no sooner than age 12. Girls think differently and that’s a different subject.
In other countries where untimely death is more prominent in the public, I would consider no earlier than age 10.
Kohlberg’s stage 6 gets real interesting and may be the crossroad that western society now finds itself.
Whatever Holdover
Again for me it’s all about the individual
just because some assclown has a tin star on his chest doesn’t automatically confer my respect for said assclown
you are likely one of those cats that feel it wrong to be critical of Obama as its being disrespectful of the Office of the President
to me, that’s retardspeak
I don’t respect Anyone over title/profession
again it’s who they are & how they do what they do
as far as being a serviceman or woman
again your job, current or former means nothing
American prisons are chock full of Veterans & there are a fair number of servicemen doing extended bits in Military prisons as well.
add to that the significant numbers of folks over the years that dodged the crowbar hotel by agreeing to join the armed forces
well it kind of dampens any automatic respect
one of my favorite County LEOs growing up only went into the military just prior to WWII to dodge a lengthy stay in prison after being busted for a series of Armed Robberies. He claimed the Army saved his life & I do believe him.
He was a fat bastard that tipped the scales at well over 400#s and stood a bit over 6’5…that was one pile of pork there 😀
anyways I tend on seeing everyone being equal and everyone starts off getting the same level of respect from me that they extend
act like a jackass that thinks you are my Lord & Master I will probably treat you like shit
most LEOs are not that way but a fair number certainly are
all in all cops are little different from the members of a motorcycle gang
most just ride their bikes and cause no problems
a few see the patch on the back of their piss stained leather as a badge of office and you best be respecting me
and when those few fools fuck up the rest of the club bails them out of the clink or otherwise protects the offal
a custom Knucklehead and a shitty patch on your greasy leather don’t get my respect.
truth is HO most folks don’t respect LE either
like a greasy biker or urban black Gangsta many Officers confuse abject Fear with actual Respect
there is a difference you know 😉
Seems a lot of mistakes was made here. The Range officer should not allowed this, and the father as said before should have held the gun with his son.
Seems the father put good faith in professionals, who were not certified and had no “common” sense @ all.
Sam 🙁
Your father was a Fed, (myself also)your family is in law enforcement as are your friends and you have no respect for law enforcement?
your a real shit bag
Dont lie about, you meant it .man up . you do have a right to your opinion no matter how ignorant, biased and hatefull they are.
I was also an infantryman for 8 years too , so either I wasnt cut out for it or your talking out of your ass . So tell me again about working on boats .
O.K. now :11:
Hold Over I always enjoy pushing your buttons 😆 😆 😆
look most of my family is LE as are most of my closest friends
guess what I talk the same way around them as I write here and every one of them agree knowing its not directed at the good guys
there are all sorts of dangerous jobs out there
try pulling nets on the Bering Sea
Hell even driving a Cab in most cities
so I really dont give a shit about how scary it is to be Popo
if its that damn awful then you were never meant for the job in the first place
you really need to stop getting so defensive about this shit
nearly any jackass with a somewhat clean record can become Popo, this Assclown is a Shining example of the truth of that observation I’d say.
I figured you regarded this fat turd the same way I do but knew I could get your goat over this shining example of Pigletry
given time I can dig up some his past history, no this isn’t his first brush with infamy…this fatty is one serious piece of work
then again like my father a career Federal LEO learned me young…people often get the quality of Law Enforcement they truly do deserve
meaning the dumbass mouthbreathers of Pelham asked for a fatty pinhead and thats what they received… 😉
Hey!!!! I thought you got banned!!! 😆
Lookit numbnuts….let’s keep “jackoffs” out of this discussion.
There was NOTHING in that article about jackoff involvement…and speaking on behalf of innocent jackoffs everywhere, keep your dick skinners off that keyboard if you can’t stop singling us out for ridicule!
Hoot 😯
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Roachcreek,
I also am proud of your family. And thank you for providing a loving home for all. Please thank you son for me. His service to our country is priceless. I greatly admire your daughter for the path she has devoted her life to. It takes strong people to pursue great paths. Aso, I admire your wife and you for making good things happen.
I didn’t do so well in raising a family. That’s all the more reason for me to admire those that have stayed the course.
I agree with your opinion of modern day psychology. We can credit modern psychology with a lot of what’s wrong with our government and the decay of morals andf many families. The worse fraud in our history was the Kinsey Report back in the 60s. That asshole should have been committed for rape of juveniles.
However, I feel we can still learn from some dedicated individuals that unfortunately got tagged with the label of psychologist. We know that there are stages of learning and developing along with plateaus of developed ability. So, what I’m saying is that without loving parents to guide children through the initial learning to learn, their physical abilities without rational and moral reasoning could be dangerous.
Hey, you were beating up on each other before I mistakenly thought I had some information to offer that could bring your arguments together.
Silly me
😳