Taipan Mutant vs. Edgun Matador R3
According to Wikipedia, the inland taipan is considered to be the most venomous land snake related to the cobra family. Taipans move fast and possess highly neurotoxic venom and other toxic substances, which paralyze victim’s nervous system and clot the blood. Taipans are considered some of the most deadly known snakes. One drop of the inland taipan’s venom can kill up to 100 men (bioweb.uwlax.edu). The inland taipan is shy and rarely attacks. The taipan mutant can even be more deadly based on what you have seen in the mutant turtles created by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird.
Dman/Jaime and Ernest have posted very positive reviews on the Taipan Mutant – the mighty beast created in the Ukraine. The high air efficiency is intriguing to me, but it remains many mysteries concerning this particular strain of Taipan. Dman finally sent me his beloved Mutant to play with. Thanks Dman!
Here are my thoughts on the Mutant, and I intended to compare it with my “aged” Edgun Matador R3. I have to say it in the front that this is just my personal opinion on the comparison.
Machining: The machining of the Mutant is outstanding, very smooth, polished very well, no sharp edges and corners, and slightly glossy in the metal, outstanding finishing I would say. It looks and feels better than my R3s.
Stock: The quality of the stock is okay (i.e., serve the purpose). The Mutant stock is also well machined and shoulders comfortably for me. My R3 stock looks and feels better than the Mutant in appearance.
Hand Grip: The Mutant grip is very ergonomic and just the right size for my hands. It is very comfortable and no sharp edges. I like it much better than the R3.
Cocking: The lever cocking is butter smooth, effortless and flawless, period. The bolt cocking in my R3 is also very smooth after polishing and lubing the chamber.
Cocking Lever: The lever is ambidextrous. You can swap mutant lever to left or to right, a thoughtful design. R3?
Magazine Indexing: The magazine is very easy to install. It cycles very well but you will need to count the shot to know the last shot or you will need to put a marker/label on the magazine wall to tell where you are at. I had some dry fires without knowing the last shot. I have no experience with the Edgun magazine and its cycling, so no comparison on this.
Single-Shot Tray: The tray is easy to drop in, and very smooth. I don’t know if the single-shot tray is available for the R3M from the factory.
Scope Rail: The rail is very well made. My Burris Signature Z rings fit into it very well. The R3 rail has an angle to accommodate long-range shooting. But I don’t know if the Mutant has the same. I put on my SS scope and sighted it in at 30 yards without any problem.
Trigger: This is one of the best parts of the Mutant. Dman has turned the trigger really well, light, smooth, and crispy break. It is very consistent. This is much better than the R3s I have (both.22 and .25). The Mutant trigger is fully adjustable. Unlike R3, the first and second stage adjustments are independent in the Mutant. The tension for each stage is also adjustable. Did I say it is super smooth? The smoothness of the trigger makes you feel good and enjoyable during shooting. There is a tiny hole beside the trigger adjustment screws. I don’t know what that is for, but I think you can apply a needle drop of glue to that hole to prevent the movement of the screw to ensure the consistency of the trigger. Although I don’t use it, the Mutant trigger has a simple and effective safety. Overall, the Mutant is much superior than the R3 in trigger category.
Speed Consistency: I have shot more than 5 strings at different days and times. Dman adjusted his gun to shoot 880-890 fps, I consistently got 887-890 fps in mean velocity (from 6 string) with 2.0 to 2.7 fps SD and 7 to 13 fps in max spread. The shot-to-shot variation is within 2.0 to 3.0 fps, with majority of them at 2.0 – 2.2 fps. Based on my record, the Mutant is slightly better than my R3 in SD, max spread, and shot-to-shot variation.
Air Efficiency: Dman had 10.4 cc-bar/FPE in his string (see topic on “Meet the Taipan Mutant… update”). I believe he turned down the reg pressure a little bit (?). He tethered the gun with a large tank and closed the tank valve to use the large tank gauge for accuracy purpose. I read off the pressure change directly from the small gauge in the gun, and the calculated air efficiency is between 11.2 to 12.1 cc-bar/FPE (average 11.6 from 6 strings). In general, it is about 1.87 to 2 bar/shot (JSB 18 grain with 885-890 fps). The speed drops at ~118 bars. From 220 bar to 118 bar (or 115 bar in some strings), you will get ~55 shots with consistent velocity. My R3 has air efficiency ~12.2 cc-bar/FPE, which is close to the Mutant, but I have to said the Mutant edges out my R3. On the other hand, the R3 has larger air reservoir, and I can get 68 to 72 shots with 200-bar fill. Concerning the shot count, R3 wins. I don’t know if the Mutant air usage can be further “improved” by changing reg setting, hammer weight/spring, or valve spring…
Sound Report: The loudness is similar to that of R3, the Mutant may be slightly louder because of its high-pitch sound signature. This is very subjective…but the wife also says Mutant is louder.
Shroud: OD is 30.5 mm, shroud has some baffle inserts. The end-cap is a screw-in type, so it gives the possibility of installing an add-on LDC to further reduce the report. It is difficult to install LDC to the R3 without making a new shroud and adding adaptor for the LDC. In terms of the convenience of installing LDC, the Mutant wins.
HST Adjustment: Mutant has an external HST adjuster, very nicely made, easy to adjust and it is very responsive. There is a side screw to prevent the accidental turn of the adjuster. There is no HST preload on the spring so you can reduce the speed to zero if you want it to. In R3, you need to remove the stock to adjust HST, and the adjuster is difficult to turn and the thread of the adjuster is easily damaged by the little set screw (there is improved adjuster in newer version of the R3 and R3M). My R3 .25 came with damaged HST screw.
Air Filling: The fill hole can be closed by turning the cap, a very nice design, which R3 does not have. You can adjust the location of the fill hole in the Mutant. Dman didn’t send me the fill probe because it was not included in his original package. No problem at all because the probe is compatible with the Edgun probe. But the fill speed in the Mutant is kind of slow. I believe the fill speed is adjustable from the air-inlet screw in gauge assembly.
Pressure Gauge: Same as the Edgun air gauge (Kiwa).
Accuracy: This is the most important subject. A nicely made gun without accuracy is like a hamburger without meat. I am not a good shooter, I just wanted to find out what the Mutant is capable of in my hands. I normally shoot with bipods, but I specifically purchased the Caldwell front and rear bags to test Mutant accuracy. Although it is not thorough, at 30 yard one-pellet hole accuracy is achievable by the Mutant (see some groups in the picture). I tested it with different head size of JSB pellets from 5.46 mm to 5.51 mm (~18.1 grain). It appears that the Mutant likes 5.50-5.51 mm better (target #9 and #10). The groups seem to become larger for smaller head size (5.46-5.49 mm, targets #6, #7, and #8). At 50 yards, the Mutant is capable of producing 0.20” to 0.30” groups with 5.48 mm to 5.51 mm head, when I am in the good mood. The 0.3” to 0.4” group is very common (see some groups in picture). Those shootings were done under windy conditions and sometime with rain. The R3 LW barrel is specifically made to use JSB 18.1 pellets, but the spec of JSB pellet keeps changing and is inconsistent, head size from 5.46 mm to 5.53 mm (most recently was 5.47-5.48 mm), thin to thick skirt, different sizes and depths of head-base… which is very annoying and causes many fliers. My R3 only likes the “old-style” JSB (thin skirt, wider but shallower head-base, and 5.50 mm head size). My Edgun is the first generation R3, its barrel might be different from the newer models. Nevertheless, the Mutant is not that picky and much easier to shoot with compared to the R3. I like the Mutant better.
Conclusion: In some aspects, I feel that the Mutant is superior than my R3. Ernest said: “This thing put the Edgun and cricket in the back Seat‼” now I understand what he means. He also said, “1: All the negative things I know about the edgun and crickets you don’t see on the Mutant. 2: All the positive things I see on the Mutant I don’t see them on the edguns or crickets.” I don’t know about the Crickets since I don’t have one, but concerning the Edgun, R3 in my case, I agree with him.
Regards,
Endo
30-yard target:
50-yard target:
All Replies
Yes, Endo. Helpful as always. Since I’m worn out from today’s exertions, I’ll ask a mulligan while taking your lead in not going through much ado about next to nothing. Great info and analysis. Thank you!
Darryl
Darryl, here is the data I found. This was done in the mutant shorty with Germany barrel. I tested JSB 18.1 pellet and AA 16 pellet in a 20-shot string under one fill. The numbers show that both SD and Max Spread are smaller for AA pellet. The average shot-to-shot variation for AA is 2.0 fps and for JSB is 2.68 fps. The air efficiency is also slightly better for AA. Based on the experience on my Edgun, the air efficiency becomes better at tube pressure below 165 bars. At higher tube pressure (>165 bars), it consistently “wastes” more air. I found the Mutant has the same behavior but it is not as obvious as the Edgun. So, the better air efficiency observed in AA pellet might be coincident with the test that was done under lower tube pressure. To do this in a better way, I should also reverse the testing sequence by doing AA first. Although the numbers look better for AA, to be honest I don’t’ see these differences are statistically significant because the results are within the internal variation of the test. There may be a subtle difference, but I would rather spend the time to enjoy shooting than to confirm these observations…. :biggrinn:. However, if there is a “sufficient difference” in pellet weight, e.g., JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy 18.1 grain vs. JSB RS 13.4 grain, the difference might be more pronounced as you have experienced. It is difficult to do a reasonable comparison because there are too many factors, parameters and variables to consider. I think the best way is to pick the pellet you like and tune the gun for it, or select the pellet to fit your gun. I shoot 18s and 16s most of the time anyway because they are very accurate for my Mutants. This is just my opinion, hopefully it is helpful.
Endo
Endo, thanks for looking into your old charts. I’d like to know what’s in them too. I’m basing my (greater air) efficiency on heavier pellets as a great WAG on my part, but also because in looking at my spreadsheets, shooting from the same start-fill pressure, I saw lower ES and Sd numbers from the heavier pellets versus the lighter ones.The JSB 18.13s were more efficient than the 14.3s and the 15.89s on my sheets, as also shown by their more-flat shot strings. Anyway, that’s where my thinking went when I looked at those sheets. IIRC that pattern showed up on several different guns I tested.
Not sure if I still have those old sheets, but I’ll try to look them up.
Darryl
PS maybe my old memory is older than your old memory. Not sure. Can’t recall :biggrinn: now.
Darryl, good observations. I also had the same question on air efficiency and speed consistency related to pellet weights.
I will try to dig out my records later tonight or sometime tomorrow.
Based on my old memory, it seems to be the other way around…but not 100% sure.
Endo
Good read there, Endo. You and Sac are at the tip of the tuning spear for the Short (and reg’d airguns, I’d say). I want to ask you both about any observed improvement in air efficiency related to using a heavier pellet versus a lighter one. From my experience with non-regulated PCP airguns, I’ve always seen lower Es and Sd numbers in shot strings where I’ve used heavier pellets, and just the reverse when I use lighter pellets. I assumed the greater weight had a part in the lower numbers, but I can’t say I could explain it beyond that observation. Observed accuracy tended towards the heavier pellet. I bet you two have some illuminating thoughts on this.
Great thread here,
Darryl
WARING…LONG POST…If you are not interested in tuning your Mutant, please skip it (don’t read).
Sac, thanks for sharing. I think your HST was set too high and it has passed the plateau of the speed/HST curve, which is a bell shape and the speed would drop in either side of the curve. So, if you turn the HST down and see the speed increases, meaning the HST is set too high for the original setting.
I have posted on how to tune the regulator and HST for optimal air consumption and speed in the Edgun forum a while ago in this thread: http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=22808
It is a long post, but I reorganized it for this forum for someone who might be interested in tuning/optimizing their Mutants. I am going to use Edgun R3 as an example because that was what I used for tuning described below.
I think the reg pressure and HST need to work together to have the optimal performance in terms of air efficiency and speed consistency.
Here are two shot strings and their air efficiency of my Standard R3 .22 Matador after regulator adjustments. The goal is to tune the gun to shoot ~890 fps (the range of best accuracy for R3) with the optimal performance in both shot count and speed consistency (3-4 fps shot to shot variation and a max speed spread of 10-12 fps).
1) Adjust reg to where you think it should be for the targeted speed (in my case, 1/3 trun-in from the stock setting to start with)
2) Fill the gun and turn the HST two turns out (reduce HST)
3) Shoot 5 pellets to ensure the HST is reduced to the speed around 100 fps below the targeted speed (my targeted speed is 890 fps)
4) Shoot 3-5 shots for each increment in HST (i.e., turning in the screw 1/8-turn for each tension increment) and record the speed vs. tension (as shown in 1st graph).
5) The amount of speed increase vs. tension increment should taper off and reach the plateau (this should be the optimal tension for the reg). The speed will drop if you further increase the tension. This is commonly referred as “1st peak,” but I stopped when the speed reaches plateau as showing in the 1st graph.
6) The optimal tension might not match the speed you want (e.g., if the speed is lower than the targeted speed, see #7 below)
7) Increase reg pressure (or decrease reg pressure if the speed is too high)
8) Repeat the process from #2 to #7 (goal is to find the balance between the reg pressure and the HST for the desired speed).
9) END the loop if the goal is achieved.
Here is an example of the speed vs HST in two of my adjustments. The open triangle in the 1st graph shows that the reg is set to 0.375 turn-in (135˚) from the stock. The speed is increased with increasing HST and reaches plateau around 2.5 turn-in with speed 880 fps. I further increased HST (3 turn-in) in the plateau region to reach the targeted speed 890 fps (Note: the speed would drop if I further increase HST beyond 3.5 turns). In this setting, 194 bars starting pressure (gun gauge), I got average speed of 890.3±2.6 fps with 14 fps maximum spread and average 2 fps variation between shots (see 2nd graph). I had about 57 shots before a significant speed drop. There was no creeping in this string. I liked these numbers. But the air efficiency (~14 cc-bar/ft-lb) was relatively low compared to the stock setting (about 13 cc-bar/ft-lb). This means that a larger amount of air is required per FPE (Note: a lower value indicates better air efficiency). I think the reg pressure was set too low to effectively reach the speed I want. To resolve that I increased reg pressure (0.25 turn-in, i.e., 90˚ from the stock) and then gun speed reached plateau at 890 fps with less effort (i.e., only 2.375 turn-in HST to reach that speed, 1st graph). The shot string, with 193 bars starting pressure (gun gauge), is now average 889.8±2.7 fps with 11 fps maximum spread and average 3.2 fps variation between shots (2nd graph). The calculated air efficiency was improved to 12.4 cc-bar/ft-lb (see the smaller pressure drop in the course of the full string, i.e., smaller slope of the pressure line with closed circle in 2nd graph) and the shot count was increased from 57 to 65 before a significant decline in speed. This setting also gives me some room to increase speed when I need it (of course at the expense of reducing air efficiency). But, again, I was not happy with some (3) shots exceeding 9-fps change in speed and there was a slight creeping up in speed within the string. So, I increased the HST a little bit to see if these can be cured. Indeed, I got 892±2.2 fps with 9 fps maximum spread and average 2.2 fps shot to shot variation (one hiccough with 6 fps). The air efficiency reduced a little bit to 12.8 cc-bar/ft-lb with 60 regulated shots. I gain something and also lose something. I think my Matador has been pushed to her limit.
I see several benefits from this tune. Statistically, it has significantly 1) reduced the speed variation between fills, 2) reduced the maximum spread, 3) reduced the speed variation between shots, 4) improved air efficiency if HST is set to optimal level, 5) increased the number of regulated shot. Non-statistically, I feel more confidence on the gun.
I tune my Mutants in the same way as I did for the Edgun. The stock reg of my shorty was set to 135 bar, which was reportedly lower than other shorty (145 bar), and this pressure can only push JSB 18.1 to ~800 to 810 fps and 15.9s to 840-850 fps (for Petr’s barrel) at the optimal HST. I normally turn HST to about 98% of it maximum speed. The speed would fall if I increase or reduce HST outside the plateau range. Of course I can make the gun to shoot more than 25 FPE by increasing reg pressure to 145 bars or more, with the expense of reducing air efficiency and increasing muzzle report.
The Mutant is the most air efficient air gun I have ever seen and the reg is excellent. With other guns, the HST and reg pressure need to be matched to reach the best speed consistency, but this seems not to be the case for the Mutant. She can tolerate a wide range of HST changes and maintain a good speed consistency without adjusting reg pressure.
Hopefully, this post is helpful to those who want to push the Mutant to her maximum potential.
Also, I would like to thank Dman for making regulator tester, that thing amazingly makes the regulator pressure adjustment so much easier.
Regards,
Endo
HST vs Speed
Shot String Comparison
Endo,
The max power of my Shorty is not when the HST is turned all the way in. Starting with the HST bolt flush with the receiver, mine has the maximum power about 1.5 turns out. If you haven’t done so, try to turn it out 1/8 turn at a time, and take at least two shots for each position. I found that my shorty needs 1 shot for the HST to settle down. You may find your gun to have more power than 25 FPE with more turns out.
Motorhead probably knows the answer, but I suspect this has to do with the trade off between stroke distance and HST. The optimal point is not when the HST is turned in all the way, at least for my Shorty.
I discovered this by accident when I turned the HST one turn too many in preparing for a FT match. :whistle: Hmmm, how come all my shots are flying over the targets past 30 yards? When I measured muzzle velocity, it was a surprising 950 fps when it was supposed to be 790 fps.
If there is any gun-to-gun consistency, that means that 1 3/4 turns in from your 12 FPE position may be around the optimal point on your Shorty. Give it a shot (no pun intended 🙄 ) and you may squeeze that last bit of muzzle energy out of the Shorty!
–Sactargetshooter
Sac, I agree with you on the accuracy and consistency on 13 FPE and above. The JSB 15.9 can do the same — single-pellet-hole at 30 yards between 14 FPE to 25 FPE (max power for the set pressure on my shorty regulator). I think I will need to use either Express or RS for any power below 14 FPE. I will find a calm day to test 15.9s at 12 FPE again to see its accuracy, although it is well within the kill zone in my previous test.
Regards,
Endo
Endo,
I have been shooting my Shorty at 13 FPE with JSB Express 14.35gr pellets and it is dead nut accurate up to 25 yards. I don’t have groups, but let’s just say that many pests now have a piece of lead in their little brains :whistle:
At 20 FPE, I think I did okay in the previous FT match. Almost tied with 3rd place.
I haven’t really tested the accuracy at 28 FPE, now that is something that I want to do!
Darryl, glad to be of help!
Great idea Sac.
Darryl, my original setting was 835-840 fps muzzle velocity with 15.9 grain JSB and zeroed at 30 yards.
I gradually reduced the muzzle velocity down to 580 fps. The POI dropped by 1.7 mildot (~1.7″) at 30 yards and the groups spread out (almost double). It was quite windy when I did the test and I believe the grouping is more susceptible to the wind at this low velocity. I noticed that the spread was more pronounced when the speed was below 650 fps. Again, this is JSB 15.9 grain. Different pellets might have different results.
JSB Express is lighter and has a better BC I think, and it should have a higher velocity under the same energy, and it might perform better than the 15.9 grainer under that condition. Sac has a good result on it in his field target competition.
The Mutant is capable of maintaining a good consistency under that low velocity without adjusting regulator pressure. Outstanding!
Regards,
Endo
Excellent results! The gun can do about anything! Really adjustable for power.
thanks sactargetshooter,
Darryl
I can give you the theoretical answer right away.
The green line is for 950 FPS 28 FPE, purple line is for 790 FPS 20 FPE and the red line is for 640 FPS 13 FPE. As for consistency, I can just say that the 13 FPE is very consistent and use the 20 FPE setting for field target, also very consistent. I only need to adjust the elevation turret 18 clicks to switch between 13 and 20 FPE (for the respective zeroes that I have chosen). Other than the first shot after HST adjustment, shot-to-shot consistency is definitely there.
Too stormy right now to go to the range, or anywhere outside!
Speaking to consistency with changing the power settings, can either one of you shoot some benched groups at 30 yards, showing the different POI with each power setting? This mod has piqued my curiosity.
thank you,
Darryl
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Endo contributes a lot to the Mutant and general community with data and analysis, thanks!
Haven’t got time to do much about airguns for the past two days, the persimmons are ripening fast and I have to help turn them into dried persimmons.
I did think about energy efficiency and came up with a rough explanation.
Increasing regulation pressure helps because it is the initial pressure behind a pellet that does most of the work. As HPA expands in a barrel, pressure drops and the force to propel a pellet drops as well. Pressure times volume divided by temperature is a constant. Given temperature is constant as well, then pressure is proportional to 1/volume. This means the force pushing a pellet through a barrel drops very rapidly.
Using a lower regulated pressure, more HPA is needed and the work is done throughout a longer length of the barrel where the pressure drops quickly. This is why (I think) a higher regulator pressure makes a gun more efficient. The downside of a high regulator pressure is the shot count before dropping out of regulation.
Next, a heavier pellet is, generally speaking, more energy efficient than a lighter pellet everything else being equal. Consider the extreme case of a pellet that weighs nothing. It can only be propelled to the velocity of HPA coming out of the muzzle. In other words, some of the energy is not used to push a pellet, but to push air at normal pressure out of the barrel. Some energy is also wasted due to flow restriction and etc. The ratio of energy put on the pellet is the question.
With a heavy pellet, acceleration and muzzle velocity are both lower. This means less energy is wasted pushing air out of the barrel because air is no longer exiting the barrel at a high velocity. The ratio of energy transferred to the projectile increases. As a result, energy efficiency improves.
That said, I have often seen H+N heavy pellets having less energy efficiency than JSB pellets shot from most of my guns. I think that mostly has to do with H+N pellets are usually harder than JSB ones, so the skirt does not seal as well. There may be some other factors involved, too.