The Haley .457 is here.
My haley .457 is finally here i should have the 58 in bout 2 weeks my 457 is supposed to produce 500+fpe i got the scope mounted tonight and will shoot tomorrow and YES i Will get u guys some pics also
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I agree I like my Marauder because the price and value for the price. I would not be happy at $1200 for a Marauder hell no. I would expect more. I would and am looking in to buying the Ranger that is why I have been following this thread. I would spend $1200 because it is unique and it is probably made better than the Haley (from what I have read and seen I have never touched a big bore which is why I am trying to learn here). I could also buy an extremely nicely made powder burner for $1200 which is what has stopped me from buying a big bore air gun to this point. I gather from the discussion that the haley is roughly made probably works fine and is worth the $600 that you pay for it since they are not mass produced. The Ranger is better made but not worth the $1200 you have to pay for it. There would be less criticism if it was say $900. I guess I would still buy the Ranger since you do not buy one every day and it is a one time investment. I am still on the fence about the $1200 versus another powder burner. lol healthy debate if you delete the verbal abuse. 🙄
Plasticman:
nope not at all…improving an old BUT sound design is Great
taking a Bad design and making it better leaves you with just a slightly less bad design but bad none the less
What’s utterly comical about all this is if Crosman, muchless FX, Daystate, Theoben, FWB, Styer et al introduced a small bore sporter with this trigger and billed it as superior to a multi lever design nearly every one would go ballistic at the outright inaccuarcy of the hype
guess Big Bores don’t need no stinkin’ decent trigger group, particularly once the price threshold breaks a grand 😆 😆 😆
Haaha!
Well WOK I understand why you are content producing no load parts rather than a complete rifle and understand I seriously do respect your aesthetic sense and abilities.
No hair up my ass about the XP
Danny was bragging them up as the greatest thing ever, I am simply of the opinion that while they are quite nice and seem very well finished they really are not all that
sorta like a Prom Queen with half a pound of face paint that when you roll over and see her in the morning’s light she really ain’t that pretty inside.
I do need to note as well you were the first to troll RJ’s thread on his new Haley. At the time I didn’t regard your post as a troll but damn with all this emotion I really am beginning to wonder 😆 😆 😆
As far as my owning Haley’s…sure, I have owned a few…currently I have that early .452 and a couple of his QB tubes and have been quite frank about their short comings.
let’s do this one more time:
in my QB tubes his valves were badly designed, the execution was fine…it was just bad design so I upgraded with Rich’s wonderful valves
in my .452 the stock is on the rough side, not bad…certainly better than Crosman trash but not anything to rave about for certain
The front band has grind marks…doesn’t affect the gun but still…
my greatest objection is on the trigger…execution is half assed and the design is worse. If I was defending Jack I sure as shit would not have posted the macro of that garbage now would I.
The rest?
well look at the pix. The quality is as good or better than DAQ or Bontrager’s guns which are/were in the same price class
Had I invested $1200.00 I would have expected quite a bit more
so without sputtering and based on the pix I posted please share what you see as Soooo unsafe that my rifle should be destroyed
I mean I already covered the bad trigger which is the same design as McVeys so past that lets hear your opinion
and please lets not delve off into second and third hand stories about other guns…look at the pix
Blind kid in India using rust as a lubricant?
share what you really think about DAQ’s and Bontrager’s rifles as I own all three and really don’t see a whole lot of difference in overall build quality & performance
can they be done better?
Damn straight they can!
Is the Ranger XP the ONE?
Spare me…it’s merely a better executed rehash of the cheaper rifles for twice the money
and you are all impressed with it 🙄
this is as silly as those who claim the Marauder is made in China versus those who claim it’s not
Fact’s are minor components of it certainly are but who cares
not me
just keepin’ it real 😆 😆 😆
I’m confused. Taking an old design and making it better is a bad thing?
Riverside
I know they are different. Dont be a dumbass.
I am saying I have seen that method used before and it is not new.
As for the question you keep asking if I would use that method, I already answered you on that. If it works and is safe then yes.
You have a real hair up your ass about this gun. You own some of those JH’s which I would cut in half for safety reasons and bitch and moan more about the XP which is obviously better built.
You are obsessed with those big ass grade 8 bolts and the sear yet you have an entire gun that looks like it was assembled by a blind kid in india using rust as a lubricant. If you are so concerned with safety then get rid of the JH’s you have. I am more worried about those then some hardened steel bolts shearing under 50 lbs of force when it can withstand thousands of pounds of shear.
Sorry my friend, I know you are an old school Paintballer but that’s simply Apples & Oranges
bolt head shears on a Paint ball gun, worse case you have a mess to clean up…
bolt head shears on a .45 Big Bore Pneumatic?
Some one may end up dead
Big Difference that
There is another inherent design flaw in near all US made Big Bores as well that has received zero attention online that will eventually get someone wounded or worse in the long run which is hammer inertia
I personally know of one DAQ accidental discharge related to this.
Was a major problem during the Second World War with both Allied & Axis Paratroop operations that led to design change in several SMgs
During the Invasion of Crete the German Fallschirmjager had been outfitted with the new MP38 SMg. Common practice in a jump was to leave the bolt down on an empty chamber with a loaded magazine inserted in the mag well. What occurred was a number of Paratroops hit the ground pretty hard which caused the inertial mass of the bolt to recoil just enough to override the magazine, chamber a round and detonate the primer often wounding the operator
Hanel fixed that flaw fast by incorporating a bolt handle that pushed into a corresponding slot in the receiver tube resulting in a new German SMg model, the MP40.
The DAQ incident was a similar case where the rifle, a .50 Bandit was dropped accidentally on the butt while loaded but with the hammer resting against the valve stem. There was enough inertia for the hammer to move back then slam forward resulting in a neat .50 hole in the ceiling of my buddies mudroom
his wife was not at all pleased, particularly since she was the one who had knocked it out of the gun rack allowing it to plummet to the cement floor below…was nearly a divorce.
there is a good bit of moving mass in these Big Bore hammers
anyways…
more to the point though WOK is I was referring not to the insane use of fasteners on the hammer but to the rude & crude lockwork itself
I will re-ask the question
If you were going to build custom Big Bore rifles that you were going to sell in the Thousand dollar on up range and boast of as being basically superior to anything else on the market would YOU use that particular TRIGGER design?
or…
would you use a proper multi lever design incorporating a positive sear blocking safety?
It’s not merely a case of my not liking it, it’s simply not a good design, never was & never will be regardless of who builds it.
it remains a pig 😉
I have only seen bolts used as lugs on the famous Autcocker paintball gun. You could adjust the sear engagement by moving the bolt up or down a bit.
So yes I have seen it used very successfully in airguns before.
Would I use it? I would if it was show to be safe why not?
The shear strength on a grade 8 lug far exceeds the force in holding back a hammer in a big bore. If you can hold that hammer back with your hand, then that grade 8 steel bolt will have not problem at all.
You might not like it, but that doesn’t mean it should not be done.
nice try at side stepping reality WOK 😆 😆 😆
You should have known I’m not that easy
perhaps Danny would appreciate the ol’ WOK reach around? 😉
seriously though would you yourself use this sort of design were you building thousand dollar or more custom Big Bore rifles for resale?
I will state that from what I can see with the exception of those detachable man-tits on the hammer, McVey has executed the design far better than any of his predecessors that used it
but still WOK…would YOU use it?
bad design is bad design
If I as a damn 15 year old could hand craft a better mouse trap of my own design what the hell is going on with these prestigious Big Bore makers?
we need to at least give Haley props for upgrading to a proper comercial unit
What grade are you in now ❓ :whoop: :whoop: :whoop: :whoop: :whoop: :whoop: :whoop:
That’s my point WOK…no matter what is done to improve these no lever triggers, they remain a serious bit of CRAP
don’t matter is it’s a DAQ, {which btw isn’t much better work on the early big bores}, a Bontrager, this Haley or some Halfwit’s ultimate wet dream gun…the Ranger XP which runs basically twice as much as the rest.
Upside is on this Haley the rest of the rifle is decent work. The Band needs a custom replacement as it has grind marks
I’m in no way a defender of anyone who uses a Whammo Crossbow trigger group in ANY gun…don’t care who it is
I’ll stomache it on a no frills gun just like for the money I don’t bitch about a soft plastic breech on a 2240, I just replace the offending bit but when it’s over a grand?
Christ!
Then to stick Allen bolts on the hammer and act as though it’s something of a superior nature?
Spare me
Let’s be real here…the stock set up in a 2240 is Far superior to this design abandoned by Haley and now rears it’s ugly head yet again on the XP
I call things as I see them, crap is crap…no gods in my temple
back in junior highschool shop we hand crafted Crossbows as a shop project. Still have mine. The plans used this same shit design which I changed to a two lever with a rotary release “sear” of my own design.
If I as a damn 15 year old could hand craft a better mouse trap of my own design what the hell is going on with these prestigious Big Bore makers?
we need to at least give Haley props for upgrading to a proper comercial unit
It should be easy enough to get a series of pict showing the seamed tube claim.
Until it can be proven then it is not a fact for the rest of us.
River as far as those picts you just posted 🙄 I would not own a .177 in that condition much less a big bore.
Indeed WOK, that IS the problem here…what is the truth?
Do we accept all claims and fables now on TAG?
the Yellow has gone through this Horseshit quite a number of times
can’t tell you how many times I bit my fingers and just ignored someone’s concocted lunacy so as not to rile SteveCT
I don’t do that here
when I sence utter bullshit I tend to call the guilty party out on it
Tell you what WOK if Danny can post up some clearer shots of the bore and exterior of that tube plus pix of this tube mounted on a Haley rifle I may well be willing to accept this particular rumor
as it stands it’s another Newbie claiming he heard something from an unidentified third party that mind you NO ONE ELSE has seen in a Haley product.
Sure, I agree mistakes occur however that in NO WAY should force any of us in giving ANY credence what so ever to insane stories until tangible and moreover credible proof is rendered by the accusing party
this isn’t defending Haley…this is simply cutting through the chaff to the seed of real truth
If Danny can’t provide…he’s full of shit
it really should be that simple…
now on to a photo gallery:
1st up a quick shot of my particular Haley .452 broken down…
you will note that the workmanship while not on the level with a pre war commercial Mauser is not at all bad…bolt & hammer are pretty clean work.
Next up a close up of what I consider a notoriously crude trigger design. Look familiar?
That’s right basic design is the same as the XP. Now I can accept this on a no frills $600.00 Big Bore but Come On, why should anyone be excited to see it on a $1200.00 rifle? Don’t matter how much makeup placed on it, a pig remains a pig.
Next so poor dumb Danny understands what a proper multi position hammer design is supposed to look like…
this is the two position hammer and trigger group from a 1950s vintage Cap’t Chur Traquilzer dart rifle
Does the trigger design seem similar?
thats right, it’s what DAQ copied and what JH copied from Dennis and what McVey copied too…PURE CRAP
that said they did a fine job on the two position hammer…{notice any allen bolts hanging out of the bottom like udders on a damn Goat?}
I am extremely anal regarding lock work design, made grade school Zip Guns were more complex than this obvious shit trigger box or any of the copies that have followed it whether by DAQ, Haley, Bontrager or the Great and Powerful OZ McVey…
Last up while Danny was beating his meat over the XP the last few days I was reworking one of the Richards stocks.
Frankly I find the pattern as sold & shipped quite clunky
Skeletonized this one out and slimmed out/re-tapered the forarm. Quite a bit of subtle radiusing of the butt and grip. Still a bit more to do, it’s still in 80# and need to use the foredom with a dental burr ro carve rhe stipple before hitting it with 50/50 Beeswax & boiled Linseed to the tune of a dozen or more coats…
decided to toss that up for Tof to show what can be done with Richards stocks. So far I have about a 12 box of Canuck beer into it. Really don’t see folks using these blanks to their potential. This one is going on my QB based .308
and no, it sure as heck isn’t a damn crappy Corsair 😆 😆 😆
{sorry Tof, couldn’t hardly help myself so I didn’t}
River I understand your position. But I also have been around awhile and have come across things people would argue until blue in the face would never happen. When it fact it did happen.
For example a brand new Air Arms 410 FAC .22 caliber test fired at Air Arms and by the distributor. I drove up to Pomona Airguns to pick up my gun. He unboxed it infront of me. It was pretty we air it up and dry fired it a few times and it was ready to go.
I drive and hour home. Load the .22 magazine and insert it into the gun. Cock the gun and drive the pellet into the barrel and the bolt would not go all the way forward. I tried to remove the magazine and it would not come out. I call Pomona airgun and he did not have a clue. I would have to return which is another hour drive.
I messed with it for awhile and finally was able to force the magazine out. I had no idea what had happened. And then intuition told me to try something. I grabbed a .177 pellet and fed it into the barrel and fired it. It work perfect.
Air Arms had installed a .177 barrel into a .22 FAC gun and it was suppose to be tested by Air Arms. Pomona Airguns fixed it for me for no problem be we also found 2 stripped bolt in the brand new gun with strict quality control.
So shit happens even at the best places. I would not be surprised if a wrong tube was used. I mean come on the guy could not even drill a hole straight, I would not be surprised if he used the wrong tubing on one gun.
Defending JH gun is like arguing with someone who claimed to get a shitty hamburger at McDonalds and you think they are a liar because you have eaten hundreds of them and think the are fine.
I have no idea what the truth is until better pictures are made available.
WOK…it works like this
so far I own 3 JH tubes, had others pass through my hands
here is the thing…seamed tubing is welded, the weld doesn’t take a tank blue the same as the native steel so that seam is always visible
there are ways around it.
for example I have done stretch jobs on cut down single shot rifle barrels butt welding two or three chunks together, dressing the flats with file then stone before sending them off for cyro process before the bore job and liner
that masks the weld very well so if you are saying ol’ Jack is sending his seamed pressure tubes off to be cyro’d prior to polish and the tank
sure I’ll buy that
I won’t buy some unsubstaiated rumor by some young troll that can’t even keep his silly stories straight
I can wash out a pic of a Marauder tube and get those same three lines
I mean we don’y even know who this mystery machinist is
for all you & I know this individual could be little Danny’s latest Imaginary Friend
after all he seems to be at that age
I won’t argue some of Haley’s work was questionable at best…some have issues, many others don’t
again WOK this is contrasting apples & oranges…my $600 Haley to McVey’s cheapest XP at $1200.00, not a great deal different than folks who own new $1200.00 Daystates that bitch about $400.00 Marauders.
and thats exactly what most of Jacks & Bontragers big bores were…budget, no frills rifles little different than the Marauder
at 1200 bones shouldn’t you really be playing in a different league than a product costing half as much?
this whole comparison is rather silly in that context
it seems akin to comparing performance stats of a ZR1 vette to a 6 cylinder Mustang and yes over the years I have witnessed those manner of childish comparisons as well.
I’m back home now, I will post up a pic shortly of the old style Haley trigger so everyone can see the complete design similarity to that on the XP…well other than McVey’s dubious “advancement” in the use of fastener technology 🙄
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River,
I make all kinds of things apart from airgun stuff. I do have some experience with inventing and building machines .
But you are playing Chicken Little crying the sky is falling.
Seamed tube vs bolts breaking
Hmmm…. why should we believe either of you?