.22 LR vs. .22/25 Bp ( of any kind)
There´s been lots of talk whether an airgun in .22/25/30 beats an .22 LR in accuracy to 50,75 and/or 100 meters ( or yards) so i´d like to add a new thread where we can compare group sizing on those aforementioned rifles/distances to get out something more than assumptions and biased quesses out of it. I. myself, have been leaned towards to airguns – at least up to 50m. but i´m no longer all too sure about that. i love my EdGun but when the groups get all that much tighter with my .22 LR i´m beginning to wonder….
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Or lord, I can see you putting on that winged helmet right now.
And it was Walter from Canada that I took the throne.
Hoot is just the court Jester. 😆
Haaaa – see there’s your problem; i’ve been learning from the crankiest of bastards (uncle HOOT) and i’m a one quick learner so be prepared to the change of thrones since it’s acoming,pilgrim. The Beast from the East is in da house! 😉
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That rifle for some reason performs best at the longer distances for me, 250 yards and beyond, not sure if it is a parallax issue with the scope I use or a bullet stability problem.
And yes it is a bit off the original post.
And I use scba rather than scuba which is restricted to 3000 PSI for most refill areas here. I shoot at 3500 psi with a regulator from a 4500 PSI scba tank so a scuba would not work well for me.
As far as getting your dander up, I worked hard to steal the title of “Cranky Old Bastard” from Walter here on the TAG and have no intention in letting some Johnny come lately “Viking” remove me from my throne. 😛
Outshoots? Put up some groups at 50-100m with that Cannon and we’ll see about that.
What do you use instead than scuba tanks?
I don’t get dandered the least but think tha you’re comparing a bit wrong rifle/distance as per OP.
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Been there and done that on that same range with SR 25’s, M1A’s, rack grade to super Match, various Remington Senderos, custom classic mausers , custom barreled Remingtons from .223 to 340 Weatherby and Sharps rifles from originals to Shilo’s with black powder cartridges.
I seem to go in spurts of air gun disciplines, for a decade or so it was black rifles, then another decade of only black powder cartridges, now it is air guns, and basically shoot what I want to shoot.
Amazing how you get your dander up over my post on a air rifle that out shoots your rimmer.
And I don’t use scuba, it is not worth the effort. One 66 scba bottle gives me around 60 shots.
I want your Sako. 😎
Why not get a good,accurate rifle in 7-8 mm range instead and start to hit those bottles by every shot – or even soda cans for that matter.
And beat your current FPE at muzzle by the target too.
If you feel the need you can still cast your own bullets and reload the cartridges.
Meanwhile i’ll continue hitting whatever i aim at 50-200 meters with my measly,no good rimfires…
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Who the hell cares what it costs as long as it’s fun to shoot. I’ve seen your video clips and while stunning what an airpowered gun can achieve i sure as hell don’t want to drag 12 scuba tubes with me in the middle of nowhere to find a Range where it’s safe to shoot 500-700 yards. I think that’s more than little overkill.
Why not get a good,accurate rifle in 7-8 mm range instead and start to hit those bottles by every shot – or even soda cans for that matter.
And beat your current FPE at muzzle by the target too.
If you feel the need you can still cast your own bullets and reload the cartridges.
Meanwhile i’ll continue hitting whatever i aim at 50-200 meters with my measly,no good rimfires…
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Being a long range air gunner let me break this down into my realm, which is 280 to 600 yards.
Now bear with me, this may not be practical for your 22 lr but it does work with my 257 air rifle, so maybe that says something in itself. It is not a bulllpup and has the advantage of the muzzle being a lot closer to our 100 yard target with its 36 inch barrel and 48 inch length. 😳
I routinely hit 12 oz soda cans and Utube the results at 500 to 615 yards with my Haley 257 Scandalous air rifle and get sub moa and smaller groups at 280 yards. It does not have a match barrel and wears a tube meant to resurrect antique 25-20 Winchesters.
I miss a lot at 600 yards also, but looking at my misses, I would say I could hit a 1.5 liter juice bottle 50 to 75% of the time at those ranges.
The Haley 257 Scandalous shoots a 100 grain bullet into the 200 FPE level and is still at 120 FPE at 600 yards where it is still viable for accuracy and power. The 22 LR if starting at 1300 FPS, which you would not get in target ammo, but let’s say 1300 FPS, it is only getting 59 FPE at 600 yards at 143 FPE at the muzzle.
Trouble is in the Hi Velocity 22 lr scenario your going to be dealing with transonic issues, so you would be better off with a round traveling 1100 FPS which would give you 107/26 FPE.
Now lets look at cost of ammo. I cast my own and do so as a hobby and I am retired, so I don’t break down my time into a hourly wage, but with a Freedom 8 and buying Rotometals lead, for the 100 grain bullet I am running around 2.90 per hundred, If I buy my lead from RJ Porter I have recently learned the price is around 2.25 per hundred or less. What does Green Label Target ammo run these days? 😛
Did some ammo testing today eventhough the day was “blessed” with gusty winds and rain. Shot Lapua Midas+, SK High Velocity and SK Standard.
I already knew that my .22LR liked Midas but today i took my time and squeezed every shot as perfectly as i could. I shot,and always do, with a Bipod (the “worthless” GB Atlas copy) and no bags or such under the butt stock. I just keep my left arm there as a stabilizer – like to shoot that way.
The first pic is a five shot group at 50 meters (54-55 yrds or something) shot with Midas and the other one is shot from the same distance but ten shots by using SK Standard. Unfortunately i blew the second to last shot a little so it ended up making the group bigger than it really should´ve been.
The 5-shotter has a CC on 5mm and the 10 shotter shows 11mm. Wish i didn´t blev that one shot but…
God bless my Finnish made Sako and the Finnish brand Lapua ammo. The SK is actually also Lapua but made in Germany using Lapua specs.
The shooting was done in front of several witnesses so it ain´t some Internet-marksmanship.
Blazers sell for 39 Swedish Crowns (around 5.50$) over here for a box of 50. What the hell is going on ?? I can get SK Std Plus for under 6$/box and even Lapua Midas + or X-act or Eley Tenex for under those 14$/box so finally,FINALLY you guys are getting screwed instead than us. Hallelujah !!! :6:
I only paid about $10 a few years back for 500 Blazer Brass 22s per brick so $14 for 50 seems a little high but I reload 22-250s, 243s, and 223s when I really go after those vermin and then the 17s look mighty frugal. 😯 I just picked up 1000 Nosler 50 gr BT bullets to reload at a great price. Our P-Dogs need a lot of shooting so I am planning on about 3000 rounds for my trip to North Dakota next year across the 4 calibers. 😀 When I NEED to see the little sod poodle impacts, :10: though, the 17s are the best with no recoil and 223s next. After my 30 cal BP and FT scope purchase, if I survive my wife’s wrath, I may have to invest in a Quad Range – maybe they will have a 17 WSM out by then. Winchester is starting to produce a lot of 17 WSM ammo finally but they still cant keep it on the shelves. I have 14 boxes and pick it up when I see it at Wal-Mart.
No problem sending over a complete rifle either. Like said a relative o´mine is a Sako 1st Class and he has sold rifles to all over the Globe. He sells 50-60 guns for export every year so he knows the drill. I don´t know how much paper work is involved at your end though.
So you think a brick of 50 shots at 14$ is expensive,huh ? Here the .17HMR sells for almost three times that much IF tou pay retail,that is. You can get them at around those 14$ here too if you know where to buy and who to blackmail…
I´d sure like to see the WSM become a regular since i like the HMR and the WSM sounds like “the more the merryer” so bring it on Sako !
Like said i have family working at the Sako Factory at Riihimäki, Finland (and a Sako Dealer in another corner) so the only guns i´m allowed to buy are either Sako or Tikka if i want to be able to participate in any family activities in the future. I´m excused the brutal step-over (when i bought an Russian made EdGun) only because Sako/Tikka doesn´t make PCP airguns and in their opinion a Stoeger (a corporate in-law for Sako) just makes “POS of weaponry” , according the family.
But it´s like the famous Carlsberg adverticing says : “IF they made airguns it would be the best airguns in the World … ”
Thirty bricks of Blazers ?? I sure hope they shoot well in your rifle then. 😆
Mine hates everything CCI (except those Blazers are OK), lows Remington,especially Thunderbolts (Targets are acceptable though), pisses on Federals (Champions goes in a pinch),doesn´t exactly thrive with American Eagle´s and really,really hates all Winchester i´ve tried (actually that only makes two of them : SS and Xpert HV). It likes all European brands – except RWS SS – so i started to think it´s kinda racists MF untill i realized it likes Aquila Centurions but then again those are made in Mexico under a license from Aquila. I´ll have to test shoot some US made Aquila´s just to check out if there´s indeed some kind of inter-Atlantic fuzziness going on or what. 😎
Maybe you can send me a Quad Range in parts. 😀 It may be the only way to get one over here at this point. Are you suggesting H 😯 😯 T likes “old” bags? With our so called 22 LR shortage (although I have 30 500 bricks of the Blazer Brass 22s) we have tons of Eley/Tenex now but its so high.
I think the 17 HMR is going to be history eventually. I pay $13.99 for 50 – 20 grain 17 WSM so the price is identical and the performance is superb on squirrel size quarry. The 17 Hornet centerfire is too expensive if you don’t reload. The WSM has over double the 200 yard energy of the HMR. At this point the fact that it is established is the only thing the HMR has going for it over the 17 WSM. More and more manufacturers are starting to announce a 17 WSM or at least the barrels for them. I have the Savage B-Mag 17 WSM w/ Accu-trigger but it is a knock around gun until something better comes out. The Browning 1885 Falling Block is pretty nice.
Anyone want to buy a Savage Varmint Stainless heavy barrel 17 HMR with an Accu-trigger? 🙂
17 HMR 2350 FPS 250 FPE $14/50
17 WSM 3000 FPS 400 FPE $14/50
17 Hornet 3550 FPS 550 FPE $50/50
Yep. The Range isn´t so “new” though since it´s been for sale in Finland almost two years now. I live in Sweden though and it will be for sale here in the end of 2013 BUT some of my relatives in Finland work at Sako and one is a Sako First Class Dealer so i imported one from there. Bought it as a Range but ordered a Varmint-stock too since i don´t like the Range… Almost as ugly as the Bobcat (i said almost) in my watchful , all-seeing eyes.
I´m waiting for a new stock though from Norwegian KKC which will be carefully bedded in and all..
And the rumor is Sako is watching the .17 WSM movement closely and if it catches on (the ammo cost etc. staying at ” rimfire level”) they´ll chamber a fifth barrel for that cal. They may have to rename the “Quad” for “Cinco” then … 
I have shot high-end match .22 LR (Feinwerkbau) every Thursday since early April at the Club i have my national competition licens at but i have to say my Quad gives nothing, and i mean nothing, in accuracy when compared to those rifles that cost three times the price. It´s a Tackdriver out of this world. The only thing i´ve done is i´ve polished the barrel and tweaked and polished the trigger down to 11 oz pull weight and opened the barrel channel for skosh more room. It shoots like a champion now.
I ordered a single set-trigger from Sako too to be delivered together with the new stock but i don´t think i need it. May be a “nice to have” item nevertheless..
I haven´t even bothered to try high-end Eley (Tenex) as of yet since this bugger shoots so nicely with all low-end SK (Std Plus, Pistol Match etc.) and Norma Jaktmatch. The cheapest bulk ammo one can find here (Aquila Centurion) shoots like a champ too although occasional flier will be there. I´ve shot a group of six shots with Lapua Midas+ but there´s no cc to measure since there isn´t more than a biggish round hole to measure from – no bullet holes but a one round hole. I swear all the Scandinavian Pagan God´s !
All my shooting is always done with a bi-pod (nowadays the Atlas knock-off from GB) and no bags nor other steadying devices under the rear stock. That´s what i have my left forearm for (and H 😯 😯 T: Shut up!) – i don´t like bags.
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Put it on? I always wear one – even while in bed. Who’s that Canuck? Where? When? And why haven’t we been introduced properly?
I’ll tell the Uncle about your disrespectfull comment on his humble and observant person. Shame on you! Shame…
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