Benjamin Rogue Bullshit detector ringing!
Does anyone here have a Rogue? Please don’t be bashful, I’m not trying to belittle anyone or call them out for anything. I just want to get some actual information from someone who bought a Rogue retail and hopefully can shoot worth a damn!
As far as I can tell, Crosman (via Chip) has backed off on initial performance claims (though in a mealy mouthed way) and are now all about versatility.
Crosman appears (to me) to have delighted in all the pre-release hype on the airgun forums but is now claiming the lack of any positive reports via airgun forums to be because they market the gun to PB guys.
There are claims that hundreds of guns have been sold and yet the buyers are strangely silent. Oh yeah, the PB guys that bought this gun would never think to ask airgunners about all that airgun stuff like tanks, fills per tank, where to get fills, best prices, best gear etc… no they get all that info from Crosman… a company with one big bore to it’s credit. Right.
I was a defender of Crosman when they announced the Rogue and still appreciate the guts to move into a new market with new technology. In fact, I’d be proud of a company that did that and failed on the first attempt! Taking a risk and losing reveals a far stronger character and work ethic than playing it safe and having mediocre success.
But now, I smell BS and I hate that! I’m not saying that new tech is suddenly bad or even that the Rogue is a bad gun, I’m saying that Crosman appears to have let bogus initial claims stand despite knowing the actual product didn’t deliver per hype. The so called “actual” performance is not well defined but doesn’t appear all that bad (energy numbers only), but it’s not close to original hype.
Way back when, it was claimed that the gun would get 20 shots at 150 FPE and 4 shots at 250 FPE. Yeah, now the gun gets 21 shots at 133 FPE (not badf at all) and 3 shots at 195 FPE. The 21 at 133 doesn’t fall that far short but 3 at 195 is a damn far cry from 4 at 250! The latest explanation from Chip (Crosman’s rep) is not satisfactory. He claims that the initial claims were based on different weight bullets. Right, a gun that shoots 175gr bullets at 250 for 4 shots can only manage 195 with 170gr bullets for 3 shots… I might have been born on a rainy night but it wasn’t last night! Shit, I’ve got more big bores downstairs than Crosman has even seriously considered but they are going to tell me (and you) what’s what?
I’m also curious about Crosman’s claim via Chip that this gun is intended to bring hunters to airguns vice airgunners to hunting. Sounds like a BS strategy to me. You can’t get a airgunner to like the gun but maybe a guy who knows no better will? Let me get this straight, sell a gun that needs air tanks and fittings and fill sources etc to a PB guy and ignore the guys that already have all the gear to support the gun? Yeah, ignore the guys that already have all the gear and are used to the hassles that airguns bring but focus on PB guys that can buy super consistent ammo from big guys or custom reloaders? Got it. It’s a good thing the Rogue only costs double what a match grade varmint rifle with a tax stamp for a silencer would cost!
OK, maybe I’m totally f’d up here, it’s happened before! So, does anyone have a link to a PB site where the Rogue is reviewed by an actual customer? Has anyone in Crosman’s self declared target market actually posted any results? Really, after hundreds of sales to these hunters that routinely post on topics like head space measurements, best powder loads, best powder types, effects of temperature on powders, bullet designs, and every other esoteric thing you can imagine about shooting, shouldn’t there be a few easily found reviews?
BTW, I did notice that Jim (echochap) has a wonderful specimen that his buddy can shoot little groups with off-hand. Yeah, my BS detector has not been silenced! This is where I gather some hate mail… Jim has a habit of going quiet on guns that suck. He also has a habit of ignoring great guns that don’t pay his way. If he ever manages to “find the time” to gather actual numbers on the Rogue, they will probably be reported accurately. However, if the numbers and accuracy are crap, I doubt we’ll ever know that he found the time…
So, I’m looking for retail customers that Crosman was unaware of to relay actual results! Has anyone besides the Crosman team shot anything with a Rogue?
All Replies
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 , i am laughing pretty hard cause i just reread what i wrote… 😆
I won’t even try and clean it up. Too embarrassing now…… 😆
BUSTED!!!!!!!! 😆
😆 😆 😆
HOLD OVER,
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 , i am laughing pretty hard cause i just reread what i wrote… 😆
I won’t even try and clean it up. Too embarrassing now…… 😆
BUSTED!!!!!!!! 😆
That’s like me saying i have a 7 model wives who are filthy rich, and a 15″ dick and I’m not gonna show proof so you just have to BELIEVE ME 😯 😉
No man , I believe you, I dont want to see proof, Ill take your word for it ,
But can I ask you what magazines your model wives with 15″ dicks were modeling for?
Just between me and you. I dont know if I would marry a chick with a 15″” dick ,I know, Im funny that way, but Im afraid the marriage would leave a bad taste in my mouth or just tear me up inside. I dont know if I could handle it all
(I know your laughing 😆 )
Yup, the high end airgun market is pretty small but I’ll bet it’s freaking huge compared to the market Crosman is targeting: PB shooting varmint hunters that want to join the high end airgun club by buying the first electronic gun from a first time big bore maker!
Crosman certainly set the bar out of reach and has failed to get close so far. I think it’s great that a US company tries to make a breakthrough product but they dropped the ball big time in execution and obviously in marketing. The marketing probably isn’t that big a deal except for the fact that they alienated the actual market…
They should have spent more time working the algorthims so the gun actually shoots level strings instead of every shot going slower.
They should have done some research on what really works for airgun ammo instead of trying another marketing gimmick with Nosler.
They should have spent a lot more time on production engineering and quality control.
They should have tried a bunch of ammo choices to sort out the magazine.
Lotsa shoulda’s!
there will be another option by next year, Citrus Airguns will be offering a .308 Marauder conversion using a recored Rogue magazine…he was figuring on getting the first of them out this fall but the waiting list is already into 2013
He had considered running them in 9mm however due to what you can get out of the Marauder valve it just wasn’t worthwhile
likely be a spendy conversion but Mikes work is stellar by all accounts
you see that is what Crosman is good for
production of base platforms for builds…2240, Discovery, Marauder All can be modded to Hell and back again and built into damn fine weapons
thing is through to do that you end up discarding at least half of the basic gun and modding up the rest
QBs are the same way just to a lesser degree due to the higher quality of the Chinese build…how much of a Corsair is Chinese? What, the stripped breech, trigger group and fugly stock?
By the time you pay for all the parts and labor on these builds you are deeply invested mumbling to yourself, “Sheesh I coulda bought an FX or Daystate”
This is the largest problem with the Rogue…there really isn’t much an end user or modder can do with the worthless POS and trust me, the same will prove true of the new Evinix electro guns
most of us can easily deal with mechanical issues but I’ll wager not many are as comfortable with electronics
Oh I’ll likely buy an Evnix bullpup, I am very comfortable with working with electronics but I doubt many will ever be sold and mind you, the USA is one of the few markets for those rifles…most everywhere else they are too much power and either highly regulated or prohibited due to the select fire feature
problem is they will be in Edgun territory pricewise…not much of a market for airguns that cost the better part of two grand
reality the highend airgun market is extremely small as a demographic unit…did a show a few weeks ago, huge interest in the big bores and match pistols…but truth be told there will never be much of a cross over market with PCPs given the BS factor with pumps, bottles, compressors, ect
Quite a few were really taken with my Indy but about shit themselves over the cost which was a few hundred under AoA
like I stated, very limited market for this shit…Airgunners just think it’s huge due to the Internet
I just bought 10 Shells for my 500 Magnum at $2+ per shell.
At that rate I’ll shoot my air rifle even if it is expensive to begain it will come out cheeper in the end concerning price per shot.
Had I been shooting my 45 colt or 410 Judge PDX like I do the 25 caliber pellet rifle I would have done had the price of a Dozen Ed-Guns invested in Shots fired. So pellets is good to use in it’s limit and here in the Bugger woods it works just fine, who needs all that booming energy for 45 yards? 😀 😀 That being said……. Yep the airguns are too high and so is the $9 ruger 357 magnums that cost $600, now for the Iceing on the cake,,,, Get the Gun Loby’s out of DC and you wont have to pay so much for a gun…… The fear factor is the problem, not the gun itself,,, I’m pretty sure Us voters can put some progun people in DC if they mees with our gun rights,.
If you notice when a new president comes in the first thing he does is discontinue the other presidents policys,,, so down with the pro Gun Loby,, and as for teh rest of you,,,,, Get out and vote. 😀 😀
The Korean guns are fine, just fugly and a bit cheesy on the internal quality
there will be another option by next year, Citrus Airguns will be offering a .308 Marauder conversion using a recored Rogue magazine…he was figuring on getting the first of them out this fall but the waiting list is already into 2013
He had considered running them in 9mm however due to what you can get out of the Marauder valve it just wasn’t worthwhile
likely be a spendy conversion but Mikes work is stellar by all accounts
you see that is what Crosman is good for
production of base platforms for builds…2240, Discovery, Marauder All can be modded to Hell and back again and built into damn fine weapons
thing is through to do that you end up discarding at least half of the basic gun and modding up the rest
QBs are the same way just to a lesser degree due to the higher quality of the Chinese build…how much of a Corsair is Chinese? What, the stripped breech, trigger group and fugly stock?
By the time you pay for all the parts and labor on these builds you are deeply invested mumbling to yourself, “Sheesh I coulda bought an FX or Daystate”
This is the largest problem with the Rogue…there really isn’t much an end user or modder can do with the worthless POS and trust me, the same will prove true of the new Evinix electro guns
most of us can easily deal with mechanical issues but I’ll wager not many are as comfortable with electronics
Oh I’ll likely buy an Evnix bullpup, I am very comfortable with working with electronics but I doubt many will ever be sold and mind you, the USA is one of the few markets for those rifles…most everywhere else they are too much power and either highly regulated or prohibited due to the select fire feature
problem is they will be in Edgun territory pricewise…not much of a market for airguns that cost the better part of two grand
reality the highend airgun market is extremely small as a demographic unit…did a show a few weeks ago, huge interest in the big bores and match pistols…but truth be told there will never be much of a cross over market with PCPs given the BS factor with pumps, bottles, compressors, ect
Quite a few were really taken with my Indy but about shit themselves over the cost which was a few hundred under AoA
like I stated, very limited market for this shit…Airgunners just think it’s huge due to the Internet
Crow,
I totally understand the money thing but, Dan at XP airguns has the new Scout 357 coming out which is already into the what….400 FPE.
that predator link that SYN posted is sponsored by BENJAMIN and AOA…..lol. So just like butcher said, there are PRO STAFFERS there.
That’s it, i’m going get sponsored by Chip and CROSMAN/BENJAMIN. I see Ted in Madison has a deal worked out with them….lol. NOT CLOWNING TED just repeating what i read on his face book page. So if you guys want some free Crosman stuff, we should all sign up to get sponsored. There guns are at least…..WORTH “FREE”….lol
I am looking for a Bigbore myself befor End of summer
I want at least 357 cal or larger but around 300 FPE
Plan to use it for fox, coon and coyote and What ever else I can smash with it
So 1st the rouge is way over priced second the rouge is way over priced and third reviews suck
I am think a Korean gun now
Are they around the $600 mark? thats what I am looking to spend
Hey Buddy,
No talking about banned dealers
😆 😆 😆
😆
You mean those banned dealers who make amazing air guns?
Bottomline, don’t buy anything Crosman.
IMHO, they are no longer a reputable firm.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Hey Buddy,
No talking about banned dealers
😆 😆 😆
Traditional Gun hunters my ass. I still get funny looks and laffed at when I show up with an airgun.
I love his bs lines
“Production of the Rogue has been a daunting endeavor, without a doubt”
Read, We fucked it all up.
“The goal of bringing traditional hunters into airgunning is that important.”
Read, We can’t pull bs on the airgunning community as easily nowadays so we need some new suckers.
“That early leaking you heard about? Done, fixed. Computer glitches? No more. The magazine not centering rounds? The new design is done on that too. The Rogue is far from “an unmitigated disaster”, it’s just the folks around these parts are not the ones buying them.”
Read, We came out with some bull shit, didn’t test and the people on the yellow bought some called us on our bs so now we think you suck.
Love Crossman. LOL!
Gimmie a D!
D!
Gimmie a O!
O!
Gimmie another O!
O!
Gimmie a S!
S!
Gimmie a H!
H!
Well you get the idea!
😆
And he casually mentions 145gr slugs going 900+…260FPE … Yup, there’s a solid report from the Crosman BS factory!
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I was mostly a PB before getting back into airguns. I think Crosman did set their bar too high. The price point that they are at is high enough that I looked at it and immediately moved on. For what they want you can for sure get any number of PB’s that will get the job done for much less $. I like the concept but the execution failed miserably. I frequent both PB forums and here mostly and haven’t really heard much about it. They need to use the technology and find the proper niche in the PB market. I have PB’s for various applications and the Rogue is not up the task they are putting it too.