big-bore springers?
Make a long story short http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?t=15334 caught this post from a newbie asking about .25 cal HW80.
Well I had to nicely tell him not be silly. Just because the manufacturer is putting a larger barrel on a 17 cal power plant does not mean it is right. I tried to explain it.
Next thing you know the usual butt-heads come in with their 2 cents and their stories about 100 yard shooting with HW50s π
And we wonder why they sell us smooth twist barrels?
I thought we are supposed to teach people the right airgun principles.
You try to explain something to people that bigger caliber is sure is good provided you have that muzzle energy behind it.
I don’t get it… but I think airgun forums should be informative with the right information that teach people good, basic principles of airgunning and caliber selection.
All Replies
:twak:
I See you have some nice guns in your Sig line Ambush but do you Realize how underpowered your Theoben is for .25 I mean thats almost as bad as me shooting my Encore pistol in 460 Smith N Wesson
Everyone knows you HAVE to have at minimum a 8500 PSI charge of air behind a 53 inch barrel and a hammer Spring thats powered by a .22 Rimfire blank cartridge to get a long enough pulse on the valve to launch such a mammoth Slug as the MIGHTY .25
“HW80 is good to 25-30 yards”
That should tell you something right there! LMAO!
Hilarious shit! This forum rocks. But I guess we’ll just let Skiff’s dilusional existence to roam his own lunatic asylum, eh? As far as I am concerned, no forum treats cognitive dissonance or bipolar disorders…Sigmund Freud would have been proud of this case.
:twak:
When did knowledge by join date come into this conversation…? You said Ambush followed you here but in reality you joined after he did so you followed him here…
But he (silverwolf) said that to you AFTER he posted the question right?
Date stamp says the original post was July 8, 2011 your new quote is July 24th so you didn’t have that information until nearly two weeks after you answered his question totally out of context.
Just trying to figure out if you jumped to a conclusion or if you had more information that wasn’t in that post…
I see where the 12FPE number came from too being he is in the UK and they have serious power limits.
I still think you could have done a better job telling the guy what you were trying to say… The thread would have not been locked if you had done so.
Many of them were talking about 22 caliber springers too… Does that springer have enough juice to shoot in 22?
After all I have agreed with you about 25 caliber pellet speed since the start of this whole thing haven’t I? π
Have a good one Skiff, watch out for that springer! π π π
Well if we now judge knowledge by who was registered on the forum first I will rest my case. I live in a real world man not in a digital one..
but here what the poster continues to say which suggests he will be in fact putting it on HW80.. But even he begins to realize that it is good for 25-30 yards π
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 8
City, State: England NR Cambridge UK Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:
I also have HW80 in .22 caliber and I love it, what I like about it all ways ready to pick up and go, the reason I asked about the .25 caliber barrel was because I have just bought one to see the effects and damage this could do in legal limit hunting in the UK after shooting it over 25 and 30 yards its very good but drop off quick after that looks to me if its going to be a hunting rifle it will have to go on ticket and tuned and the power turned up, if I shoot out 100/200 yards for rabbits the 17hmr does the job well but I didn’t enjoy it as much as air rifle shooting.
So what more can I add here.. except that those people on airgunadvice that started blowing this gas are idiots that don’t have the basic understanding of airguns. Holding a bigger pellet in their hand obviously seems to actually make them feel better.
I’m killing time? π
You still didn’t answer my question.
π I know you are just killing time man. Now that Ambush Hunter has finally made it here maybe you will teach him. π
Boy you are so full of yourself you can’t even take a freaking joke dude…
I’ve read the original posters question in your link and you never came close to answering it…
Here is his question:
Where does he state he is actually shooting or planning on shooting this rifle in this caliber?
If you can answer that it may help your cause and make your point a little easier to understand. π
Right now it just looks like your jumping to conclusions and being a dick.
How do you know he wasn’t going to take that barrel and put it on something more powerful? π Perhaps a pcp? I believe the barrel would fit into an AF pcp being 16mm outside diameter…
All he asked about was number of grooves and twist rate and you went off on assumptions. Do you even know what the word “assumption” means?
You are the one that looks like your smoking the freaky stuff. You say people say things and accuse people of stuff they never even came close to saying or doing…
It was funny for a little while but now it’s near the mental sickness level now. But hey hide behind your language barrier, I know it’s your tactical loophole.
Ambush was here BEFORE you, you followed him. You can’t even get ANY facts straight can you…? But you’ll probably say that 2007 came after 2008. π
Good luck with your 25 springer. Seriously dude i’d be looking for more power in that caliber… π π
I know this as hell entertaining to you so keep this “hurt fella” here so he stops following me around.
Hey Ambush, I guess we just don’t understand engrish like ol master jedi Skiffy here.
He keeps telling everyone to get 25 caliber springers. I just can’t figure out why he is so obsessed with shooting such underpowered rifles. I guess he just loves to lob pellets at stuff, but hey, if he likes it so much who are we to judge eh?
AASkiff, you really should try using more power to shoot 25 caliber pellets. 12 FPE just isn’t enough… The recoil won’t hurt you that much.
Oh did I mention you should try a higher velocity with your 25 cal springers? Those springers don’t shoot those pellets too well. You’d get better results with more power I swear… I guess you like shooting underpowered.
Did I mention…
π π π π π π
Ah good times!!! π
I already have moved on about this.. π
OMG, it’s been awhile since I visited this site and this is what I get… the keyboard commando is at it, again. Roaming forums preaching his wisdom. It’s hilarious how he refuses to listen but yet keep pushing his baseless agendas… I am saving Skiff’s ignorant and hateful PMs. I might just compile them into a book, put his name on it, and distribute it free of charge. It’s gonna be a MUST-read book π
And how the hell he came up with a 12 FPE thing, WTF!? Oh yeah, he made shit up as he usually does. It’s time to upgrade that play station…And by the way, .25 is not a big bore so change that fucking title!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evr_tP9cJWY&feature=player_embedded
Have you tried the Surefire heavies (9 rings) yet? Something like 88 grains? The difference between the 7 and 9 rings is about 15 grains and takes up 100-125fps of velocity.
The hotrod Condor valves with 24″ barrels don’t push them that fast (800’s to 900’s max I believe), sure they are still pretty accurate but a 308 round is 20 to 120 grains more than the Surefire heavies… Not to mention the id of the barrel is larger so it needs more air.
Lets say you get the 9 rings at 900, bump the weight up 20 grains and your at 800fps, bump it up another 20 grains to 130 grains total and your at 700fps at the muzzle, 130 grains is a ‘light’ 308 projectile.
A 200 grain 308 bullet will develop 160FPE at 600fps, but is shooting a 200 grain projectile at a 600fps muzzle velocity really going to work at 50 or 100 yards? Probably not. It’s the same reason why a 25 cal pellet at 12FPE at 50 yards isn’t really the best way to do things (don’t tell the op I said that)…
Making the hole in the top hat larger won’t do much if the valve stem’s inside diameter can’t be made any larger… The top hat is increased to fill the larger hole in the breach from the larger diameter barrel. The AF tophat would not fit into a breach for a 308 barrel and the air would just go out the sides where the stock top hat contacts the breach..
The 25 cal barrel where it is turned down is the largest diameter that will fit into the AF breach and the wall on the barrel is already pretty thin. The outside diameter of the breach end of an AF barrel is 0.3″…
Imagine this, you suck through a straw with a garden hose at the other end, swap out the garden hose for a fire hose, the straw will only let you do so much right? The top hat on the condor is around the outside of the stem right, so how does it get more air out of the stem if the stem id remains the same???
The valve stem inside diameter is the ultimate restrictor for the valve’s performance. The custom valves that have been made for the bigbores have a much larger inside diameter at the stem to give the projectile more air.
R&L has a way of making things shoot pretty hot so i’m interested to see how he got this to work. π
The Condor valve that both Tony and Randy produce have one thing in common and that’s pure power. Increasing the tophat size makes sense as the only means to push more air out of that valve.
However, even in .25 caliber, I’m easily getting 950 fps with a modded Condor valve and a 12″ barrel. Since optimum accuracy results in the 800+ to -900 fps range, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to push the pellet any harder than that. What’s neat is the fact that I can go to a heavier pellet than 25gr and still keep my velocity in the 750-850 fps range, resulting in a substantial increase in fpe. All that and a very short rifle.
Using a valve with that modified tophat only makes sense with larger calibers/ultra-heavy pellets. Otherwise, all you achieve is supersonic crack, loss of accuracy, and wasted air.
Tony offers an ultra-high craftsmanship Condor valve, optimized, and spit shined from top to bottom. A lot of work and that effort costs money. The Cadillac of Condor valves.
Randy makes a poor man’s high performance Condor valve. I think of it as a Russian style product. It’s inexpensive, it’s not pretty, it works every time. Which one you get is purely a matter of how much money you have free to play with. Either way, everyone gets to play.
I wonder how many shots those larger caliber bores get?
Hoot
PS: Is Π΄ΠΎΠ»Π±ΠΎΡΠ± Russian for pidor???
How dissapointing is that!
I expected so much more from you! π
Oh well. π
Post a review of your new R&L 308 Condor when you get to doing some testing. In all seriousness there a quite a few people interested to see what the rifle can do. You must have got one of the first few delivered, someone was saying in another post that they were delayed a little. R&L is putting into production what only a few folks have made for themselves. That guy must work 24 hours a day 7 days a week to build all this stuff!!! π― That or he has an army of machinists and he’s getting ready to take over the air gun world. π
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Here is what i see , all BS aside, I have shot 177 extensively for ever, M48 RWS, except for my 20 pumpers. the rws 3×9 scope, sheridan open sights. this is before i bought the 22 condor.
The Sheridan hit harder , but with the scoped rws i shot more game , the 177 round nose pellets at 900’s over penetrates and game not hit in spine or head or broken wing etc. runs, flies off. so i shot wad cutters almost entirely. they hit pretty hard at say under 50 yards, without over penetration to bad. but a 177 round nose ,just slips right thru, with game running or flying off .
Now when i bought the 22 condor i was shooting it in the 800 fps range with rws hunter round nose and RWS HP , and it’s killing performance was better all the way around better then any of the other calibers or rifles i had used before. The round nose does over penetrate , but does not seem to have the same effect or lack of effect that the 177 does, the bigger 22 really puts em down. with the RWS hollow point it was crazy how hard it was hitting .
Well to the point, if you were running the 25 Cal , 25 grain pellet at say 465 fps (12 foot ponds), i would think that at shorter range it would not over penetrate at all and be pretty effective and leave all energy in the game for effective kills. with round nose pellets for better penetration than with flat pellets .where the smaller pellet’s would surely over penetrate , 177 and 22. At longer range ?, the over penetration pays into the equation and reaches vitals where the other”s do not.
The 25- 25 grain pellet is at 465 fps at 12 foot pounds.
The 22- 18 grain pellet is at 548 fps at 12 foot pounds.
The 177- 7.9 grain pellet is at 827fps at 12 foot pounds.
Now put em at equal velocity and we know how this all adds up. π
Food for thought. π
Oh , and i have hit birds out past 75 to 90 yards with my 177 M48 (wad cutters)but never dropped one dead, always either fly off or hit the ground running,( might should try round nose for this extended range in 177) with the 22 condor even with it in the 800’s , if i get the smack of the hit back the birds pretty much hit the ground dead.