blodnob valve intructions
i got the blodnob valve on my tank but the guy forgot to send the instructions with it…i cant wait forever for it…
do any of guys know how to put some air in the tank?
i tried but the air just leaks out…
any help will be appreciated.
thanks.
All Replies
Do not get sidetracked with poor information. The pump is NOT the problem if the valve is not sealing. Once the assembly is up to a pressure of say 200 bar or 3,000psi it makes zero difference where that air came from.
a leaker is a poor fit of parts or a split Delrin seal
Walt,
How come on many people have not been able to get the valve to seal on the AA410’s by using a hand pump and had to go to a place with a scuba to get it to fill and seal?
Once you are hooked on the pump, there is nowhere for the air to leak out to! Once you depressurise the pump and remove the bottle, sure it may leak. But whilst its on the pump, how does the air get out??
On other rifles where you don’t remove the bottle, ok, but the AF bottle comes off and is attached to the pump..
The Airforce system is unique in this respect as Pabs states so eloquently
with typical reservoir guns the pumping can leak out the exhaust valve which is open to free air.
Airforce fill there is absolutely NO difference as to filling from a pump or tank. none, nadda
lama it was Fishing rod
no worries Lama, it may have been that rod guy but I’m not sure about that either, I do seem to remember something along those lines though.
Interesting thread here! We started with a customer getting ignored (for a whole day!) and now it’s off to quality of instructions and valve behavior. I’ll weigh in here because nobody will stop me! 😆
First off, I don’t think claiming to have been ignored or the implication that the product was not being supported was justified. Getting same day replies to PMs or emails is the exception not the rule. Try emailing PA about your Sumatra valve and see if the customer service staff gets back to you instantly. It is not an unreasonable thing to wait a day or two when asking questions of a one-man shop or even a major conglomerate! Go ahead and send Microsoft or FX or AF an email asking for troubleshooting advice and see if you get anything besides an automated “we have your message” reply within a day. Selph took an undeserved hit as far as I’m concerned.
Second, the instructions: I never got any instructions with my 2 Sumatra guns about what to do when a slow fill would not seat the valve. Neither of those guns would work properly off a slow fill when new and I had to noodle it out on my own. I never did find a Sumatra help line for 24/7 calls… I don’t think the lack of detailed instructions on how to complete an initial fill is particularly important when it comes to a custom valve for an in-service gun. We’re talking about a cottage industry here catering to the fringe of a small market and we expect every possible contingency to be covered with technical precision for all levels of mechanical aptitude?
Third, a hand pump and a SCUBA are not the same when it comes to an intial fill and seating either the intake or exhaust valve. Seating those valves requires a pressure differential not just the ability to pump to a given psi. That means raising the tank pressure to a high value and then opening the relief valve quickly to create a high differential. If one is taking a few strokes with a hand pump and then opening the relief valve to check for leaks, they may never get a differential high enough or fast enough to seat the valve. If the fill adapter is leaking, a hand pump may never get ahead of the leak and actually raise the pressure inside the bottle even close to what is needed to seat the valve. Of course, if the fill adapter is not leaking and the bottle, adapter, and hose are all filled to 2800-3000 psi and the bleed valve ids quickly opened and the valve still won’t seat, there is a problem. I didn’t read that level of analysis though. I didn’t read anything about how it was determined that the valve was leaking either. If every stroke of the pump leads to a air bleed down than something may be wrong with the pump not the valve or fill adapter. With a SCUBA tank, these things can be chased down pretty quick given the speed with which one can do the fill, leak check etc. With a pump, one can do the same things, they just take more time and effort but it also takes knowing what you are looking for and what you are seeing (hearing) and what that means. It’s pretty clear that the customer in this case is not expert as some of the posters here are in these matters and just might not know what he’s actually observing and he might be doing some things incorrectly. The rush to dump on Selph seems premature to me.
Sorry GTBJ, I may be wrong.
It was someone on here, making shrouds I believe, that was about to start selling them and wondered if it cost anything to. Don’t remember who though. You were just the last guy I could think of that started making shrouds.
My bad! And I agree, we need to differentiate between selph’s valves and blodnobs.
I don’t understand why the tank would leak after being pumped up with a pump but not a scuba tank. Like others said, the air isn’t going to get out of the top to leak while it’s screwed in. Put it in the hand pump and don’t just put a little air in, put at least 1000 or 1500psi in there. If it leaks after that then it’s definitely something broken I’m thinking….
No.
if the air is not being held by the bottle can it not go back into the pump?
A pump is every bit as good as a tank to fill the bottle. The fill and valve are all sealed up by the oring on the fill adapter.
Do not get sidetracked with poor information. The pump is NOT the problem if the valve is not sealing. Once the assembly is up to a pressure of say 200 bar or 3,000psi it makes zero difference where that air came from.
a leaker is a poor fit of parts or a split Delrin seal
Walt,
How come on many people have not been able to get the valve to seal on the AA410’s by using a hand pump and had to go to a place with a scuba to get it to fill and seal?
Once you are hooked on the pump, there is nowhere for the air to leak out to! Once you depressurise the pump and remove the bottle, sure it may leak. But whilst its on the pump, how does the air get out??
On other rifles where you don’t remove the bottle, ok, but the AF bottle comes off and is attached to the pump..
A pump is every bit as good as a tank to fill the bottle. The fill and valve are all sealed up by the oring on the fill adapter.
Do not get sidetracked with poor information. The pump is NOT the problem if the valve is not sealing. Once the assembly is up to a pressure of say 200 bar or 3,000psi it makes zero difference where that air came from.
a leaker is a poor fit of parts or a split Delrin seal
Walt,
How come on many people have not been able to get the valve to seal on the AA410’s by using a hand pump and had to go to a place with a scuba to get it to fill and seal?
I don’t believe I would ever say that, nor would I have that point of view, I will be more than happy to kick Tony some coin to keep this place up and going.
granted I haven’t been as active on the form as I once was do to the amount of hours I have been working, but I do believe I help out were ever and when ever I can just as long as I know the answer to a question and won’t be talking out my ass, if I wrong about that please let me know.
last but not least.. Can we Please stop calling Selphb’s vales “Blodnob’s” wile they are blods design that are Not built by him!
A pump is every bit as good as a tank to fill the bottle. The fill and valve are all sealed up by the oring on the fill adapter.
Do not get sidetracked with poor information. The pump is NOT the problem if the valve is not sealing. Once the assembly is up to a pressure of say 200 bar or 3,000psi it makes zero difference where that air came from.
a leaker is a poor fit of parts or a split Delrin seal
Pab the hand pump can pump as high but i do not think it can pump fast enough to get enough pressure n the tank to hold it shut since the Blod/Brad valve relies on the pressure inside the bottle to keep the valve closed
Hand pump should be as good?? Its all sealed as you pump it up to 3000 or whatever.. Then it should hold the air.
The only thing I could critisise about the Blod/Brad valve is the fact that the supplied spring is not compatible with the power wheel. The valve and main spring were never designed to incorporate that powerwheel as far as I can see.
Springs should be returned and a compatible spring should be supplied.
from experience ,i only had a hand pump and i bought a valve i do not think anyone can pump a hand pump fast enough to put enough pressure in the tank to keep it sealed i ended up holding the valve open hitting it with a blast of air from my compressor to get some pressure in it and then pumping it up that seemed to work however it did take some time to do if you are just simply using the hand pump i do not think you will be able to fill it hope this helps
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First off, I don’t think claiming to have been ignored or the implication that the product was not being supported was justified. Getting same day replies to PMs or emails is the exception not the rule. Try emailing PA about your Sumatra valve and see if the customer service staff gets back to you instantly. It is not an unreasonable thing to wait a day or two when asking questions of a one-man shop or even a major conglomerate! Go ahead and send Microsoft or FX or AF an email asking for troubleshooting advice and see if you get anything besides an automated “we have your message” reply within a day. Selph took an undeserved hit as far as I’m concerned.
Second, the instructions: I never got any instructions with my 2 Sumatra guns about what to do when a slow fill would not seat the valve. Neither of those guns would work properly off a slow fill when new and I had to noodle it out on my own. I never did find a Sumatra help line for 24/7 calls… I don’t think the lack of detailed instructions on how to complete an initial fill is particularly important when it comes to a custom valve for an in-service gun. We’re talking about a cottage industry here catering to the fringe of a small market and we expect every possible contingency to be covered with technical precision for all levels of mechanical aptitude?
Third, a hand pump and a SCUBA are not the same when it comes to an intial fill and seating either the intake or exhaust valve. Seating those valves requires a pressure differential not just the ability to pump to a given psi. That means raising the tank pressure to a high value and then opening the relief valve quickly to create a high differential. If one is taking a few strokes with a hand pump and then opening the relief valve to check for leaks, they may never get a differential high enough or fast enough to seat the valve. If the fill adapter is leaking, a hand pump may never get ahead of the leak and actually raise the pressure inside the bottle even close to what is needed to seat the valve. Of course, if the fill adapter is not leaking and the bottle, adapter, and hose are all filled to 2800-3000 psi and the bleed valve ids quickly opened and the valve still won’t seat, there is a problem. I didn’t read that level of analysis though. I didn’t read anything about how it was determined that the valve was leaking either. If every stroke of the pump leads to a air bleed down than something may be wrong with the pump not the valve or fill adapter. With a SCUBA tank, these things can be chased down pretty quick given the speed with which one can do the fill, leak check etc. With a pump, one can do the same things, they just take more time and effort but it also takes knowing what you are looking for and what you are seeing (hearing) and what that means. It’s pretty clear that the customer in this case is not expert as some of the posters here are in these matters and just might not know what he’s actually observing and he might be doing some things incorrectly. The rush to dump on Selph seems premature to me.
on point three Jerry, sorry it does not make one iota difference on an Airforce bottle fill whether a tank is the source or a pump. Think about it and you will come to agree 🙂
My comments on the instructions is due to Brad first claiming to send instructions and then when he shows them they are worthless to resolve the OP issues anyways. Point being the supply of said instructions did nothing to help the OP.