EDgun Matador R3 versus Kalibr Cricket, my comparison….
Hi guys,
Warning for those who don’t like images:
This is going to be a thread with lots of graphics….. 😉
As promised, I’ll try to share with you my personal opinion and findings while comparing these beauties:
As some of you may know, I have two Matador Std R3s and I have one Cricket (with access to another one). All are cal.22……
My wait for my Matadors should be well documented on this very forum…..
The Crickets were a part of a group buy masterminded from Europe somewhere. The Crickets were shipped in parts to Norway and reassembled by my good blueprinting friend Egon Olsen. In the process he had to remove a “restrictor” screw that had been put into the guns before shipment. Most probably because of Power limitation rules at origin….
The Crickets arrived with no documents whatsoever. No instructions, – no nothing. I don’t think this is standard procedure though…..
The Cricket weighs less than the R3, – and is approx 5 cm shorter. Not a lot, – but overall it makes the Cricket even easier to handle than the already tiny R3….
The side by side comparison was done from my modest little shooting table at my summerhouse:
– and the shooting range is here, – with my target set up at 46mts:
Why 46 mts ? Simply because I could not pull my shooting stand further back right now. A huge tree has fallen during winter, and all the branches have taken up my space… 👿
First problem: How to fill the f…. Cricket ?
The fillprobe nut is so tiny that a standard foster coupling gasket will not seal. The entire probe is small, – and you fear you may break it while trying to tighten it:
The above (sorry for the image quality) is a comparison between ED’s, Cricket’s and Falcon’s fill probes. You can probably see what I mean….
As I could not make a standard Fostergasket fit, Egon had to make special gaskets that we fitted into the Foster coupling itself. Not an ideal solution, – and I have no clue how long it will last…….. 🙄
On the fill probe: Matador 1, Cricket 0 points.
Air filling:
I honestly dont like any of the solutions that these two manufacturers have chosen………..
The Cricket people have come up with the worst. To expose the hole for the fillprobe, – you have to slide forward the tip of the reservoir. But that stupid tip is retained by a spring, – and slides back with a smack once you let go:
If you’re not careful when taking the fillprobe back out, the tip will spring back and ruin the fill probe O-rings faster than I can say my name….
While filling, the “tip” rests on the previously mentioned small nut. And there’s not a lot clearance. So a bigger nut (for those with lathe skills), – is not going to help you much. A thicker nut might…….
In short: A very stupid filling system, – BUT once you know how to operate it and care is taken, – at least it covers the hole when filling is over.
The Matador does not come with anything to cover the filling hole at all:
I use tape right now, – but a plug of some sort would be good….. 😉
My preferred system would be that of Falcon:
The tip of the reservoir has been turned into a curled “collar” that you rotate to expose the hole. Simple, easy and effective. And few moving parts that may break or go astray……….
Now, I have no idea how much air I can fill into the Cricket, – and the gun gauge certainly does not help much:
I trust the gauge on my fillkit, – and 3000 psi is roughly on the border between green and yellow…….
Points for airfill procedure: Matador 1, Cricket 0. In my opinion….. 😉
Cheers from Trygve 😀
To be continued……….. 😀
(if you so desire…… 😳 )
All Replies
Ed, all:
Thanks for inspiring comments…….!!! 😀
A few questions spring to mind:
1. Why does the Cricket regulator seem to need no further adjustments ? The string is as flat as ever, and nothing has changed since day one. I have even tried to adjust hsp-tension as you know. The flatness remains the same. The regulator seems to do an excellent job and with brilliant teamwork from the hsp and valve at all the velocity levels I have tried……
Any clues why the regulator of her Ladyship behaves so differently from Ed’s ??? 🙄
2. The R3 no 2044 used to perform as shown below (red string):
A fairly flat string in the 890/900 area until the reg came off duty. I later adjusted her down to compare her with lady Cricket at “Cricket speed”. The resulting strings have been shown earlier in this thread.
After the initial string comparison exercise, – I adjusted her back up (hsp-tension) where she was before. And as you can see from the above, the two strings start off with very much the same speed. Until shot no 5, – where all of a sudden the R3 now drops her speed over the next 15 shots down to shot no 21. From there on the string stabilizes around 860/870 until the reg comes off again.
I find this behaviour weird. To me this looks like a “sick” regulator (regulator “creep”)…… 😉
It seems obvious I have a partial and increasing “valve lock”, – but why would it increase ? One should think the HSP has settled now (don’t ask me if the hsp has unscrewed itself little by little, – it did not… 😉 )……
Can somebody please explain what happens ?
I’ll try readjusting the hsp-tension to see what it may bring. But quite honestly I haven’t got a clue where to. In both the above strings the five first shots seem ok and where I want them, – but then the mysterious “X-files” stories of ED start to unfold. Why does the string drop ???? 😳 😳
3. For a potential buyer of any of these bullpups, – this entire ordeal may look strange. For 2K one would probably expect a little less hazzle. But again that hazzle may give you a relationship to your gun that a troubblefree gun wouldn’t…. 😉
Something which in a way is nice…….. 😀
Trygve 😀
As for the breech , I keep on my position, that is normal for that period of time, we still canot make them smooth inside in case it is made of steel, with the allum it is much better and those who will get the new guns now will confirm it. On the other hand, and Itold about it already, the surface of the breech mean much less then the shape. Shape is OK, surface not, but you can find a good side in that also, such a surface keeps the lubrication much better then the smooth one 🙂
As for the string.
1. Yes, Matador is much more effitient then Cricket, from few points of view, air effitiency, speed limit, sound suppress at the same speed. You have to take into consideration that you have the old Matador with the old valve system, now it became even more effitient. If you visit Russian Edgun forum (you do, I know) you could see that topic.
http://edgun.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=15984
That is a short Matador, just frist day it appears in client’s hands. The average speed with 18 grain pellets is 890 fps. And it gets 70 shots from 210 down to 110 bar. That is short one, which is less effitien then the standard one due to the length of the barrel. So, the new valve is quite good.
2. The pressure after regulator in Matadors is set to allow the user to get as much energy as possible with the standard pellets (JSB 18 grain), the limit is about 985 – 1000 fps, and about 1000 – 1 070 fps for the long one (talking about .22 caliber). Of course, if people turn it down it became to work with less effitiency and you can find not a flat string. That is normal.
3. If you want to see better string, you have two options, either to increase the power of the gun or to reajust the regulator to the lower speed. The other thing, which I always tell to my customers – after few thousand shots one has to tune down the speed of the gun to about 700 fps and then began to raise it up step by step and find the first peak of the speed one needs (for example 900 fps, then keep it. The point is that after few thousand shots the gun became more effitien from the point of veiw of air consumption and you need less strongest of the hammer spring then before, but it stays at the previous possition.
4. Try to reajust it as I described earlier. Then we’ll see. Besides I do not recommend to shoot to the pressure less then 120 bar.
Dear Your Goatship….
What disappoints me most about Zocoloco’s posts is his hesitation to be blunt, and say what he really thinks!
Come on, Trygve…just come out and say what you think!!! Don’t be so shy!
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 T
I really hate to add another post to Trygve’s topic count!
He is a post counting whore! 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
Trygve; the shot string for the Cricket is very good, lower fps and less regulated shots but; very good!
I know that you are too busy flying around and enjoying life to adjust your Matadors but; if you want to get them fine tuned, you need to turn both of the regulators down just a little and then increase the HST just a little.
EDIT: I meant to say turn the reg down a little, turn the HST screw out at least 1 1/2 turns and then start slowly start turning the HST screw back in untill you get the highest speed. I thought I had entered that in my post, I don’t know what happened with the improper info. Too much work and not enough sleep, I guess!
Doing that might give you at least a couple more regulated shots, the speed will remain the same and the max fps variation will come down to 8-10 fps for the full fill.
Just sayn.
Lady Cricket dances very well out of the box 😯 I can be happy with 59 flat shots.
I wonder what an R3 worked over by OldGoat would/could do?
59 shots is a very respectable numer of shots. Not up to my Daystate Air Wolf MCT but I can live with the difference.
Crickets are looking better all the time 😎 Hey Trygve thanks for your effort and time spent on this project..have a drink on me
Yes or no ????
Cheers Trygve 😀
Yes, I have. Every stage of the production development has narrow places, when you overcome them it is called progress 🙂 You haven’t seen my first guns… 🙂
ED,
You should have been a politician…….!!! 😆
Your statement is of course valid, – hopefully there will always be progress…. 😉
BUT you yourself once stated that all breeches looked the same at one point in time. There’s proof this is not true (OldGoat is one). So even at a certain stage in production development, – you have released breeches of uneven quality. Some even faulty.
I think I have been able to prove mine is among the latter…..
Tells me a lot about quality control at your end……..
I fail to understand why it is so hard to admit my breech is not worthy of the EDgun brand.
I think your answer is rather arrogant to be honest…….. 😥
But let’s leave it like that…… 😉
———–
Now this thread has reached some 65.150 views and has become the most viewed thread of this forum……
Its time to celebrate by revealing some facts about how the Cricket and the R3s have performed over time. I have been chronoing again. All guns have been through several thousand shots during the last 6 months or so. During the last few days they have been scrutinized by my dear “Chronelia” (CED m2), – and here are the results:
All strings from a fill of approx. 220 bar shot down to approx. 90. Pellet JSB 18.1 and conditions the same for all three strings……..
The graph reveals a few things.
1. The Cricket string is much shorter than those of the R3s. From the same fill, the Cricket delivers much fewer shots than the R3s and that even at a lower fps. The Cricket reservoir is 280 cc as opposed to the R3 who holds 289 cc. Air effciency is much better in the R3 than the Cricket.
2. The Cricket string is flatter than those of the R3s. In fact remarkably flat for a regulated gun that has not been finetuned. An extreme spread of some 6 fps is good. And the flatness has been the same all through this period of testing.
3. R3 no 2855 behaves ok, – but not more than that. She has been set to deliver around 890 fps which gives a fairly flat string until the reg comes of and there’s time for a refill. The extreme spread in the “flat part” of the string is still much higher than that of lady Cricket and is about 15 fps. That is way too much for comfort. Also the variation between shots is very high compared to the Cricket. The speed jumps up and down like my GF in a diamond store……..
4. R3 no 2844 has problems. She has been set to deliver approx. the same as her mate and does so from the start. BUT why the FPS slowly drop down from some 900 fps to some 860/870 before the string flattens I don’t really understand…. 😳
If anybody does, – please help me……….. 😥
2844 also shows the same fps variation between shots as her sister.
Something tells me that the R3 regulator may be a little more “unstable” than that of her ladyship, – but these are speculations only…….
Any comments anybody ?
Cheers from Trygve 😀
I will, but when temp goes up again.. My experience tells me that chronographing in cold temps give less accurate readings.. :/
I fully agree….
And who would want to spend hours out there right now with roughly minus 10 just to chrono…..? Not me for sure…..
I do mine indoors under controlled climatic conditions. I also always use IR-light to get as accurate readings as possbile…… 😉
I already did, but not from the R3..
I will, but when temp goes up again.. My experience tells me that chronographing in cold temps give less accurate readings.. :/
lol, – don’t I ??? 😆 😆 😆
The truth is I am in process of chronographing my bullpups right now. I thought it would be interesting to find out how they perform after having settled in and eaten a few thousand pellets each……
It takes a while to produce complete shotstrings for comparison purposes…. 🙄
And it takes some lead as well:
The strings will be published when done….. 😉
Hopefully others will do the same……..
😀
Lol Zoco, you look like the local tv reporter that needs to keep the fire in the story or the next cliffhanger 🙂
Hopefully the bullpup craze is not a craze and will continue for a LONG time.
As for a winner I think we the shooters are the winners.
Wow !!! 😯
A total of 63.743 views right now, – and more than 1000 views the last 24 hrs. speaks for itself……
There’s apparently a huge interest in the subject….. 😉
How one should interpret these figures I am not so sure, – but it certainly looks good for people in the business…..
I am still curious though. How long will this bullpup craze last ? 🙄
And who will be declared as the winner in the end ?
EDguns or Crickets ?
Too early to tell I guess……. 😉
😀
oh…one more thing…thanks for a sweet gun, Ed.
I love how Ed, himself, interacts here on the forum. So, it sounds like to me, he is saying that he made awesome crappier guns before and he has progressed and learned from mistakes and has been correcting as he goes – while at the same time, coming up with new guns and features? I love my Edgun and have tore it apart to find that it is pretty spotless. The breech is a tad wobbly and not as easy to arm as videos I see of others. Besides that…it is amazing.
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Trygve you might just of nailed this comparison of these two rifles for those sitting on the fense as to which gun to purchase 😯 😕
If you enjoy or do not mind having to TINKER with your air rifle the Edgun would be your first choice 😀 🙄
If on the other hand you want to open the box and go have fun and just enjoy your new rifle ( who knows for how long ❓ ) the Cricket would be the rifle to buy 😆
My simple conclusion does leave out all the “but this rifle does….sure but the rile only… 😯 ) side of all these posts….. 😕 😕
Now that we are counting the number of views I have a great idea for you 😛 How about you give the 70,000 poster first choice for any one of your wonder collect of air rifles as a prize 😯 😯 😛 😛