LOTHAR WALTHER TO OFFER A 9MM BARREL !!! GOOD NEWS!!
I noticed a new entry on the Lothar Walther site.
They will be offering 9MM airgun barrels!!!
READ THE FOLLOWING BACKWARDS these are Emails going back and forth:
Woody:
Thanks for the quick response!!!
How do I get signed up for one of these barrels?
I can announce your intension to offer 9MM airgun barrels on the airgun forums.
The bullet I use has been 105 grain, conical, flat nose.
It is about .5 inch long and hand cast from a lee mold — soft lead.
I can get 1050 FPS (250 foot pounds energy) using this bullet.
The gun / bullet combination is very inaccurate (4 inch groups @ 50 yards).
I am using an Addams & Bennett, $79 , 1 in 15 inch, barrel, 26 inch long –>junk!
I cut the barrel OD from 1.25 inch to .75 inch, as a result there are tight and loose areas in the bore.
I just tested with a 125 grain, conical, flat nose bullet. Lee mold #90238
It is .6 inches long and 135 grains, as cast.
I get 1000 FPS, for 300 foot pounds energy.
This is the bullet I intend to use, as it produces more energy.
As of yet, I have not done accuracy testing, with this bullet.
With airguns, increased barrel length equals more power.
28 inches is better than the 26 I am using now.
$125 sounds good by me!
Again: How soon can I get one of your barrels?
Thanks!!!
Mark
From: Woody lotharwalther@mindspring.com
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 6:09 PM
To: mark
Subject: Re: Message from the US-Webcontact-Form
Mark,
We are setting up production now on 9mm airgun barrels. They should be ready for ordering about late october.
The OD will beprobably 0.700-0.750″ Length is to be 28″.
Twist will be 18-or 20″. (650fps) However, at the velocity you are getting 16″ would be better.
For a single one, you are looking at $125 give or take some. Possibly less depending on quantity.
After these start production, they will be a stock item here.
What sort of projectile do you use. This may affect the design of the barrel.
Sincerely,
Woody
—– Original Message —–
From: marK
To: lotharwalther@mindspring.com
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:19 PM
Subject: Message from the US-Webcontact-Form
Message \\\”Other Calibers
Beyond the common calibers for airgun, LOTHAR WALTHER is able to offer you all other calibers for new airgun projects as for example .308, 9mm etc.
Please call us at 770-889-9998 or send us an email.\\\”
I BUILD CUSTOM HIGH POWERED AIR RIFLES.
I AM LOOKING FOR A 9M OR .357 BARREL BLANK.
CM OR SS.
IT MUST BE LONG, 28 TO 32 INCHES.
1 IN 20 RIFLING (OR YOUR RECOMENDATION)
IT WILL SHOOT A 135 GRAIN BULLET @ 1000+ FPS.
STRAIGHT OUTER DIAMETER BETWEEN .625 AND .750 INCH.
CAN YOU BUILD SUCH A BARREL?
HOW MUCH $$??
THANKS
MARK
All Replies
funny you should say that
I cannot remember what they are called now but i did see them on ebay, selling for $20 plus delivery , so you are a little too late for that. hahahahaha
If thats true, then thats as good as stealing.
Bang out of order.
IIRC that was after the bloke was run off the Yellow for the idea theft. Some airgunners are loyal and the community is small.
How tough is that?”
And, that might work fine as an airgun barrel. Any potential mistakes in the specifications are your risk based on your ideas. But, if you specified a 7 groove barrel with the grooves cut just like the sample provided then you’d be stealing someone else’s known good design.
There are subtle differences in barrels and groove design based on how the buttons are cut. It sure sounds like reverse engineering was the intent here as you hardly need a barrel to get normal “market research” regarding twist or groove count.
Without explicit permission to copy, Brad and Woody should have used their expertise to design their own idea of the ultimate .308 airgun barrel and taken their chances. They might very well have come up with a superior design. In fact they might have done that in the end, but the whole thing appears to have started as a reverse engineering effort and that is just crappy.
Thank you Jerry, we are in agreement on this. My example is how I would do it. The reverse engineering burns my ass.
disappointing revelation
“If I wanted a barrel made all I would say is 0.300 bore, 0.308 groove, 16″ twist, lands 40% groove 60% 12 groove.
How tough is that?”
And, that might work fine as an airgun barrel. Any potential mistakes in the specifications are your risk based on your ideas. But, if you specified a 7 groove barrel with the grooves cut just like the sample provided then you’d be stealing someone else’s known good design.
There are subtle differences in barrels and groove design based on how the buttons are cut. It sure sounds like reverse engineering was the intent here as you hardly need a barrel to get normal “market research” regarding twist or groove count.
Without explicit permission to copy, Brad and Woody should have used their expertise to design their own idea of the ultimate .308 airgun barrel and taken their chances. They might very well have come up with a superior design. In fact they might have done that in the end, but the whole thing appears to have started as a reverse engineering effort and that is just crappy.
And quite frankly, if somebody else won’t supply a part, fuck him, copy it and provide it yourself.
You know, I could make a truck load of WOK BUTTS, go next door get them powder coated and flood ebay with them and no one could stop me..but..its just not the thing to do..
funny you should say that
I cannot remember what they are called now but i did see them on ebay, selling for $20 plus delivery , so you are a little too late for that. hahahahaha
If thats true, then thats as good as stealing.
Bang out of order.
And quite frankly, if somebody else won’t supply a part, fuck him, copy it and provide it yourself.
You know, I could make a truck load of WOK BUTTS, go next door get them powder coated and flood ebay with them and no one could stop me..but..its just not the thing to do..
funny you should say that
I cannot remember what they are called now but i did see them on ebay, selling for $20 plus delivery , so you are a little too late for that. hahahahaha
If so, poor show.
You could end up making an exact copy purely by accident. Like I said, how many ways can there be to cut a spiral-grooved tube?
I guess.
Though seeing as Woody is a barrel expert himself, why would he need to see the DAQ barrel? Why would he need ‘putting on the right track’?
But arn’t most things often a subtle improvement on a current idea?
Make a near copy of what is out there with your own subtle changes. The very first rifled barrel was one mans idea. The next man then copied that plus his own ideas and made a better barrel. The next man then did the same etc.
Thats not to say that the decent thing woul;d be to ask the previous creator.
But that doesn’t go across the board. Simple designs like the WokButt are one offs and would need massive alteration to be able to claim it as your own new design.
They would want and use the barrel to reverse engineer it. That is unethical on the part of both of these fellas. It is unbelievable that a barrel maker would need a sample to copy and that a gunsmith would supply a barrel to copy, then be upset at the lack of honor in the whole charade.
If I wanted a barrel made all I would say is 0.300 bore, 0.308 groove, 16″ twist, lands 40% groove 60% 12 groove.
How tough is that? the whole concept is disgusting. Have we thrown honor and integrity so far away from us especially professional tradesmen that we cannot see this for what it is?
Be a man….. do the right thing!
If so, poor show.
You could end up making an exact copy purely by accident. Like I said, how many ways can there be to cut a spiral-grooved tube?
I guess.
Though seeing as Woody is a barrel expert himself, why would he need to see the DAQ barrel? Why would he need ‘putting on the right track’?
But arn’t most things often a subtle improvement on a current idea?
Make a near copy of what is out there with your own subtle changes. The very first rifled barrel was one mans idea. The next man then copied that plus his own ideas and made a better barrel. The next man then did the same etc.
Thats not to say that the decent thing wouldn’t be to ask the previous creator.
But that doesn’t go across the board. Simple designs like the WokButt are one offs and would need massive alteration to be able to claim it as your own new design.
If so, poor show.
You could end up making an exact copy purely by accident. Like I said, how many ways can there be to cut a spiral-grooved tube?
And quite frankly, if somebody else won’t supply a part, fuck him, copy it and provide it yourself.
You know, I could make a truck load of WOK BUTTS, go next door get them powder coated and flood ebay with them and no one could stop me..but..its just not the thing to do..
Not quite the same thing though, is it. A barrel is a pretty generic component. It can differ only in the very subtle detail. A wokbut is singularly unique.
Did Brad say he was making direct copies of them?
If so, poor show.
And quite frankly, if somebody else won’t supply a part, fuck him, copy it and provide it yourself.
You know, I could make a truck load of WOK BUTTS, go next door get them powder coated and flood ebay with them and no one could stop me..but..its just not the thing to do..
What a load of old bollocks. I’ve looked at plenty of stuff to ‘get an idea’, have I been ‘stealing ideas’ too? Sounds just as likely they had a look at Daq’s barrel to see how not to do it as much as how to do it. It’s a fucking tube with a curved groove cut down the inside, how many ways can a barrel be done? Twist-rate, depth and width and profile of lands…who says Daq’s got it spot-on anyway. Is there a ‘spot-on’ way?
And quite frankly, if somebody else won’t supply a part, fuck him, copy it and provide it yourself.
Brad, unfortunately it looks like you have pretty much shit in your nest here..
financially, you would be better of to disappear, reincarnate yourself and come back as someone else.. selling custom made parts.. 😉
Barnes is what I was thinking ATP, but I critiqued the gun without knowing the all the facts 😳 . I was unaware of the MFR. price vs. production numbers. I was under the impression that they were one of a kind guns for 1.5-2k, not ultra short run PRODUCTION guns for 800-1000. On a one of a kind I would have expected something a little different, but for their intended purpose (Ultimate Hunting airrifle, not gaudy custom gun) what I mentioned hs no bearing on the performance.
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It occurs to me Voltar that some technologies have to be essentially’copied’ and then improved upon. Rifling is a closed tech’. It can only be improved on. Therefore, a known design will inevitably be copied and tweaked. Is this the case here? Or just an out-right copy??
Maybe Brad could step in here…