Making the .25 Edgun quiet, easily and inexpensively…
The key to the Edgun .25 making less noise is reducing the air pressure at the muzzle. There are a few ways to do this without engaging in exotic baffle designs, or spending money on an aftermarket shroud or moderator.
Here’s how it’s done:
The first step is to remove both the baffle cover, which is unscrewed counter clockwise, by hand, then removing the bottom shroud by removing the barrel bushing/vent nut. Then you can easily enlarge the existing vent holes at the rear of the Edgun shroud with a variable speed hand drill. I made my lower shroud vent holes 2.0mm in diameter:
You can go larger if you wish. If you go too large and begin to hear air “whoosh” out of the vent holes when firing, just wrap some felt around the inside of the shroud, behind the vent holes, to slow the air down. You can touch them up with the tip of a permanent ink black felt tip Sharpie. This is how they look when done, but before the Sharpie touchup:
The next step is to increase the air flow from the front of the Edgun to the rear of the shroud. Now on the R3 this is a bit more complicated because the shroud comes in two parts, so I will concentrate on the R3. Unscrew the top shroud, baffle cover, taking care to remove it easily because the O-ring can be damaged on the threads. Be sure to put silicone grease that O-ring before putting it back on. Note the bottom shroud, and barrel, are held in place by a 19mm nut with vent holes in it. It unscrews easily, counter-clockwise, with a common metric wrench:
After it is taken off, you then enlarge the holes in the nut with a variable speed drill. I went 2.5mm, you may choose to go smaller, but not much larger, as the hole diameter affects the strength of the nut.
After this is done, you simply replace the bottom shroud, then the barrel bushing, being certain that the bottom of the shroud is properly placed OVER the rim of the permanent cone shaped breech attachment. If you ignore this step, you will bend the bottom of the shroud when you tighten the nut…note the bottom of the shroud sitting flush against the cone shaped breech attachment in this picture. The hidden rim inside the shroud is about 1/8″ or so tall, but it must have the shroud placed evenly over it before tightening the nut. When you lift up and remove the bottom shroud, you will easily spot it, as the cone shaped breech attachment remains in place:
Finally, there has been much discussion regarding how much torque must be used to tighten the nut that holds the barrel and bottom shroud in place. This is not a difficult process. First you obtain a Russian Torque Wrench…see below picture:
Placing the 19mm wrench in this handy grasping tool, you tighten the nut to where it is snug against the shroud, then you go roughly 1/2 turn further. That’s all it takes. Remember, this is thin and fairly soft aluminum and will strip threads or bend rather easily. AND…if you have placed the bottom of the barrel shroud over the lip of the cone shaped breech attachment, you will not have bent, or dented, the bottom of the shroud.
Replacing the top shroud (baffle cover) is easily done, just be careful sliding the cover over the O-ring using a light downward pressure and clockwise screwing motion until it gets past the threads on the cover. Snug it up hand tight, no more.
That’s it! You can expect at least a 50% reduction in muzzle blast, which on the Long Edgun makes the hammer slap the loudest noise emitted when shooting the gun. It costs nothing, takes about 1/2 hour, a couple of metric bits, and a variable speed hand drill. Take your time. The existing holes will guide the bit if you proceed slowly, especially when starting the new hole.
Now, for that hammer slap…I’m still working on that one.
Regards,
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 t
All Replies
Hey Hoot,
Is this the two piece cf shroud you are talking about:
That is the one I’m interested in. I’d love to have the ability to add a can when silence is needed and taking it off when not but still having a relatively quiet gun.
Eagerly waiting your test results,
Gabe
I would get your Liberal Communist Obama loving neighbors to stand in the front for the sound tests (till the fat lady sings). 😈
So did you go for the carbon fiber one or is it painted aluminum?
NC works like the wind! Amazing progress!!!!! 😯
Dear West Coast Running Capitalist Dog ….
You damn me with faint praise! I’m going to receive, illustrate, and test BOTH the carbon fiber, and the one piece, slide-on, aluminum tube models!
Neil Clague worked like a blue collar Conservative all weekend long, until the wee hours of the morning, to get his offerings out for the public to see, and I shall not let him down. Also, I intend to display a reasonably accurate decibel measurement…if such a thing is even possible with an airgun.
With kind regards, but no respect….I remain,
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 t
So what’s the damage on price for this bad boy your receiving…and in assuming you got the 2 piece with extra can correct?
I’m at home waiting. Pics to come to day, I promise.
Is it there yet is it there yet? I know it is only 8:36 am in the East Coast. Hoping Fedex made an exception today just for you and delivered before you woke up 🙂
J/K Looking forward to seeing your post
Hoot
Thought some of you would find this interesting. I like the idea of being able to quickly adapt the gun. Add it when you need it….
I guess the only way you will know if the accuracy is still there without the barrel tension is to try it…
So did you go for the carbon fiber one or is it painted aluminum?
NC works like the wind! Amazing progress!!!!! 😯
Parts scheduled to arrive this Friday via FedEx.
Hoot
Looking forward to it Hoot! 😉
Knife
Btw, I went ahead and cancelled my order for a two piece cricket shroud and ask Neil to build me an r3 shroud + LDC. So I’m also crossing my fingers and hoping that the new shroud will work as well or better than the original without compromising accuracy.
Gabe
Gabe, Neil tested both today and advised the one piece, 1″ longer than the OEM, is more effective than the OEM baffle. Then, he tested the two piece shroud/LDC and advised it is the quietest of the two, at about 4″ longer than the OEM.
You will know about accuracy long before you receive his product. I’ll see to that. Meanwhile, he’s working day and night to get his orders filled in a timely manner.
Here’s where it gets interesting…the Edgun barrel has all the attributes of a “floating barrel”. Neil examined it closely, and advised it is firmly held in TWO PLACES at the breech. The baffle assembly nut does indeed pull against the barrel/breech interface, but I doubt the barrel will come loose if that pressure point is removed. Neil feels it is more for the shroud stiffening, and baffle alignment, than barrel “stretching”.
It goes out tomorrow via FedEx, and I’ll test both the one piece and two piece for accuracy, sound abatement, and barrel attachment integrity.
There are two things to be discovered: Is Neil’s device more effective than the OEM? That’s the easy part. The second question, and the biggest in my mind: is the Edgun barrel actually free floating, and can be shot independent of the shroud/baffle-nut pretension? Repeatable accuracy, and hands-on checking for barrel movement, should give us a good idea of what is what. But again, all floating barrels are attached only at the breech…firmly to be certain, but when has Ed ever attached anything less than firmly. Every part of the Edgun is strong enough for elephants to breed on, and I doubt he put the barrel in the breech hoping the shroud nut doesn’t come loose!
Obviously Ed knows what he is doing, and nothing we are doing is going against anything he has stated regarding his guns. The question we are exploring is whether shroud “pretensioning” is optional, and will it impact accuracy? There are many pcp’s made with similar barrel/breech attachments, and a free floating barrel/shroud. They seem to work just fine. If this is so with the Edgun, then our options on after-market shrouds opens up considerably!
As I have said before, Ed makes a solid, dependable, incredibly accurate airgun. He has never said his Matadors are unbelievable quiet! That’s not what he feels is one of the most important aspects of his design. If it was, there is NO doubt in my mind he would produce the quietest pcp in the world. And the most accurate. However, that is not the case. For those of us in need of extreme stealth…Neil has a solution, and I intend to test the hell out of it when it arrives next week, with pictures and colorful commentary.
For the voyeurs among you…here is a picture of the one piece, slide-on, grub screw attached, replaces all OEM shroud parts, NC “Neighbor Friendly – quieter than OEM” shroud, in powder coat (1″ longer than OEM):
Stay tuned. I’ll get on this project like white on rice when my gun, and assorted parts, arrive!
Regards,
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle H 😯 😯 t
One way to compare if torquing the shit out of the 19mm nut OR hand tightening is trough acurracy testing. I also agree with your points Hoot. There need to be sufficient pressure to keep all the parts tight. And like you said, how tight? That is a question that can be answered by shooting the gun. I have a gut feeling that hand tightening will be fine. As long as all the parts are secure and don’t move, accuracy should not be affected negatively.
Btw, I went ahead and cancelled my order for a two piece cricket shroud and ask Neil to build me an r3 shroud + LDC. So I’m also crossing my fingers and hoping that the new shroud will work as well or better than the original without compromising accuracy.
Gabe
In watching this video, you can see the barrel is held in place by a mechanism which the rear of the barrel screws into. This piece, in turn, this is afixed to the breech. This seems sufficient to hold the barrel in place during shroud removal, etc…but perhaps not sufficient to keep it solidly in place for the sake of accuracy when shooting. Thus the necessary forward pressure is applied, created by the shroud nut being tightened on the barrel end, which in turn “pulls” the barrel tight against the breech, and holds it firmly in place. The unanswered question has always been how tight is tight enough?
Bear in mind that you can only apply a limited amount of pressure against the shroud, which pushes against the breech, to create this tension. The shroud walls are aluminum and thin compared to the barrel. I believe an internal one piece shroud nut, coupling to the barrel end thread, and tightened hand tight (rather firmly) can achieve back pressure to accomplish the same effect as the OEM 19mm baffle assembly nut. Again, “How much pressure is not enough…how much is just right…how much is too much?” These are questions that have no readily available answer, since Sir Ville has asked many times how much tension, or torque, is needed on the baffle assembly nut with no response. I believe that’s because there is no set number of psi back pressure defined for us anywhere. “Tighten it till it’s tight enough” seems to be the general consensus.
In watching various videos, I have noted some users have had to use a vise, and strong arm the 19mm wrench to pry the nut loose from the barrel end. Others have simply given it a half turn with a wrench, and hand screwed it off. That was the case with mine. In fact, I believe if I’d used both hands initially, I wouldn’t have needed the wrench to get it started. That’s why I’m assuming that great amounts of tension against the barrel are not necessary to hold the barrel in place for the purpose of accurate shooting. The thin walled aluminum shroud, pushing against the spacer between it and the breech, is not going to withstand huge amounts of backward pressure. Nor would it seem that such pressure is needed. Hand tight, plus a 1/2 turn, has worked for me with no accuracy loss. Perhaps over time, it may need to be re-tightened, perhaps not.
I have no qualms about a one piece CF shroud being hand screwed onto the barrel end, and achieving sufficient psi of back pressure against the breech to achieve a solidly mounted barrel. Remember, we are not shooting firearms. The vibrations, pressures, and gas release pressures are a bare fraction of that experienced in a powder burner. The SAMI figures I’ve come across in handloading indicated pressures 30 to 40+ thousands of psi with various powders and calibers. We are dealing with 3000 to 4500 psi in an airgun.
Not everyone will, or should, agree with my statement. That’s why we have an open forum. All users, including Ed, are free to voice an opinion opposite to mine. I’m simply reporting what I have experienced in my personal use of the .25 Edgun Long. Feel free to speak up. But please…don’t simply voice an opinion…back it up with some facts, or at least personal experience with this specific gun, and it’s barrel mounting system. Otherwise, your remarks are speculation, and not really useful to the community.
Regards,
H 😯 😯 t
I’m only speculating here. A threaded baffle or insert inside the tube may be able to create tension when screw onto the barrel. The strength of the tension will depend on the stability aft and forth of the insert. Again, I don’t know if my assertion is true. Just trying to understand how it may work. All I know is that it can be done.
Go Neil!!!!
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Ha that’s the one I want on my standard