New .308 coming out …
Seen this, pretty affordable for most of us “working Joe’s”- Hopefully prices and availability remain stable.-
http://www.network54.com/Forum/414006/message/1272418807/Corsair+pictures+…..
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Your not doing this in a vacuum, 2100 people are reading this. Think about that for a minute.
You may have the skill to pull this off, you may have tame deer, but others will follow your poor example and wound game.
The 25 and the 308 and the 9mm were not designed in airgun calibers to hunt big game. They represent the 25 acp the 32 H&R and the 38 S&W in powder burners. No experienced hunter would dream of using those calibers and no state game commission has made them legal to use. And yes if you hold them against the chest of a deer, lined up with the heart, they will kill.
You said here that the 357 was legal, then you talk about a 38 spl with 3 grains of bullseye like it equals the 357, I don’t think you have a clue about killing power. If you did you would not make the statements you have about your 308 and deer and buffalo.
Your doing what Gamo did with the 177 and the hog, you can kill with it, but it is a poor choice that will eventually make us all look bad.
If we want to change the game laws in states so that we can use good big game calibers like the 45 the 50 and the 58, your example, and the people who follow you and wound game will eventually hurt us.
People will read this and some will think they can do what you want to try, and that is a bad example for all of us.
Roachcreek
Thank you for letting me clear this up.
We can hunt with a 357 magnum for deer, so we load it down too a 38 in a 357 cartridge. Thats about 3 grains of Bulls eye, and yes we have killed deer with it.
Now that was a long time ago, but a 38 special will kill a deer .
I have also said that we don’t have flat range here a 25 yard shot is a long shot here.So why do you want a gun that will kill someone in the next county if you miss?
I also said my son took my 50 caliber muzzleloader and used 1/2 the load =50 grains of Pyrodex, and killed a deer deader than 4:00.
I never chronographed it but the bullet was shaped like a football when we took it out, It was a round ball to start with. The deer flopped over deader than dead.
I know there are the people that goes on Safaris and the spoon fed Game comes to the feeder like the Boar that was supposedly shot with a 17 caliber Gammo Extreme , that was very laughable,. The pig would have knocked him out of that tree and had him for lunch, biggest gimmick I ever seen.
And the Buffalo shot with the Quacken Bush was a good shot for sure, but as I said on a reserve with controlled conditions.
But go in teh wild and try that and you better have your gun to your shoulder and be waiting when that bad Boy comes around or you could be in it’s pot.
Around here squirrels are in the yards, but in teh woods you have to be super quiet and get in teh woods early, But as I said I can kill them in the yard by throwing out grain LOLOL. So some of your hunting is controlled, I don’t do controlled Hunting, Heck I have pet deer and Pet rabbits and Pet Squirrels that I can walk with in 5 yards of, but I hunt in the woods not my yard. Big difference then the 1000’ds of hunters that Ive seen some of them posting on the web. Don’t seem like they have been in any woods without a guide 😀 😀
I’m not excited I’m really learning. A wise man always learns, a fool knows it all. 😀
I’m tickled to death that I’m getting input to this issue. I missed my target the other day shooting into my garage with my Bow and my arrow stuck in the wooden door in the garage, Had that been the 308 I probably would have bought my neighbor a new tire too boot.
One of my prongs came loose on my TM hunter rest, and you know what that spells.
I know we are all sportsmen and I also fish with Lures.
I have had to prove that a 1/8’th ounce Frog Roster Tail would out catch any other bait used including helgramites and lizards and worms .
I know you guys that fish says here he goes again, but my Lure box has caught so many Bass that My truck won’t haul them all. And I have proven it so many times that I don’t even argue I just go Fish.
But getting into PCP air rifles and seeing that they do, shooting in the same target I shoot my 22 rifle into with 36 grain Federal High Power 1300 FPS making it 135 foot pounds by my calculator with that size bullet and I’m getting over 200 Foot Pounds of energy with a 115 308 diameter pellet, the pellet goes deeper than the 22 federal high power in every thing Ive tried including a phone book. Just asking, If what I’m doing mathematically wont work in the real world, then is the formula wrong?
39FPE arrow 135FPE 22 200FPE 308, and the 308 won’t work?
OK now a 22 magnum is 355 FPE by my calculator and that gun will shoot through 4 2X4’s but Ive never seen any air rifle not even a Quackenbush do that, yet you can hunt with a Quackenbush air rifle, in some countries but not a 22 magnum?
Is it the law?
I have also her of teh one bullet hole at 100 yards shooting 3 shots, but in my entire life I have never seen it personally, and Ive been to a loot of ranges and saw a lot of people shooting even the bull barrels like I have.
Only one hole groups out of 3 shots Ive seen is with my Ruger 1022 with a green mountain fluted Bull Barrel on it, And I’m the only man that has consistently done it at any range Ive been at even at 25 Yards.
I can do it all day with the air rifle in any caliber, but not every 3 shot group, ill be off some on some of teh groups as you have seen in teh first photo I posted, that was the 308.
So you expert hunter sure got me in the Barrel 😀 😀 😀
The more gun you can handle is always better, and your 308 is nothing more than a 3220 revolver or a 32 hr in power, nothing more. And I have never seen anybody advocate that. In real world hunting conditions, deer don’t usually stand around and give you that ideal shot from a bench.
Yes there are plenty of people here who can do it with a 22, I have killed truck loads of them with a 22, but like I have said, I was the only guy out there and they were not being chased and I had a good blood trailing dog.
I have lost game before, and I do not like to advise someone to take up a rifle that will not do the job under all circumstances and then experience the heartbreak of a lost animal.
RJ kills deer with his 9mm and does a bang up job of it, he is an expert at it, would I recommend everyone here do that, no not every body has the skill and woodscraft of people like RJ.
But airgunners tend to want to prove their toys work on big game, I say compare it to powder burner calibers they dupicate and see how well they work, not just under ideal circumstances, but any circumstances.
I, and others can’t say or do anything that will stop you from doing this, perhaps you will have good luck, I hope you do.
Roachcreek
Push Ups by the hundreds? I didn’t mean a word I said , you da man 😯
LOL I lift weights too, I recon thats why I’m still able to even shoot my bow when most around the coal fields are all but dying at my age. I stay active.
Uh the 308 will do what anything in the bigger classes accept Quackenbush will do.
The dragon slayer is supposed to be a deer rifle but the manufacturer says it will do 510 FPS, OK now with a 200 grain bullet I suppose because they didn’t give a bullet size,or weight, but at that rate that is 115 foot pounds of energy by my calculator, and thats a deer rifle and a 308 115 at 200 Foot Pounds isn’t?
I’m wide open to help here what am I missing?
An Arrow with 39 foot pounds of energy will shoot through a deer a Dragon slayer with 115 foot pounds of energy is a deer rifle, thats according to the People who made it, I’m not making this up, it’s from the Information I get from the Korean information part of Pyramid air.
I’m not arguing the point of hunting and killing, I have a 7mm Remington Magnum that I can keep in a one inch group at 100 yards, and I would have to see it to believe that someone else can do it, for I have never seen it accept out of my gun, not bragging I done told how I do it, and a 300 magnum is a Hail Mary shoot you can’t hit the dad burned sky with one, and could probably trade a cheep 22 rifle for any one Ive seen shot on the range because the shooter has to wear a one inch shoulder pad to keep from having surgery when he leaves teh range.”He told me he was going Elk Hunting with it, My money is on teh Elk. 😀
do the frozen chicken test if it goes through it or mostly through your good on a deer i say
thats my theory im sticking to it
hell i used my p1 on a cape buffalo hunt i dont recomend it but damn do they get pissed when you shoot em in the sack with it
they chagre like mad and as they charge i jump on their backs an slice the throat with my buck knife
now thats hunting folks
I’ve stayed outta this conversation for a while but IMO big bore air rifles are close to black powder in terms of power and usable distance and I’m not talking about the new in-line rifles either…I finaly got a chance to chrony my new .45 and with 143grn round ball its getting 980-950fps for the first shot which yields me 300fpe …I know that I can make a shot with this gun at 30-40yrds and the deer will go down…I also shot 20 or so rounds into wet newspaper that was framed up at 35yrds to see what kind of deformation I got with the round ball to make shure it would do the job at that range and believe me when I say that as long as I can place the shot the gun will do its job….now if you’re still in the belief that yours will do the same then give it some test shots into wet newspaper at what you believe to be a “good” distance and see what kinda hole is actually made before you pull the trigger on somthing with a pulse…..
Shaggy,
Your not doing this in a vacuum, 2100 people are reading this. Think about that for a minute.
You may have the skill to pull this off, you may have tame deer, but others will follow your poor example and wound game.
The 25 and the 308 and the 9mm were not designed in airgun calibers to hunt big game. They represent the 25 acp the 32 H&R and the 38 S&W in powder burners. No experienced hunter would dream of using those calibers and no state game commission has made them legal to use. And yes if you hold them against the chest of a deer, lined up with the heart, they will kill.
You said here that the 357 was legal, then you talk about a 38 spl with 3 grains of bulleye like it equals the 357, I don’t think you have a clue about killing power. If you did you would not make the statements you have about your 308 and deer and buffalo.
Your doing what Gamo did with the 177 and the hog, you can kill with it, but it is a poor choice that will eventually make us all look bad.
If we want to change the game laws in states so that we can use good big game calibers like the 45 the 50 and the 58, your example, and the people who follow you and wound game will eventually hurt us.
People will read this and some will think they can do what you want to try, and that is a bad example for all of us.
Roachcreek
Shaggy dude….No reason to get excited…we are presumedly all hunters here, some with more experience than others…Have NO idea who you are OR what your skill is…so relax man, some comments made are just general and not directed at anyone… trying to agree with RC on this one…to make your “amature” comment without knowing who your talking to is kinda ….well….amature
thanks for the compliments there RC just remember my 9 has one up on that 308…………..im shooting fishing weights bigger diameter bullet
i was in total shock when i killed my first deer with my 9mm i took a shot with it that most ppl wouldnt take with a high power rifle the deer was facing me i shot it i9n the brisket and the bullet was stuck in the small intestine
and no i wouldnt suggest anybody hunt with a 9mm airgun unless they were confident enough to shoot good and make a clean shot
i look at the airguns like my bow as long as there within 45-50 yds im gonna shoot it and kill it so what if i have to track it u will have to track it with a bow shot right
my final conclusion if the man wants to hunt with his 308 by all means let him if he kills the deer well good job BUT he aint me im shooting FISHING WEIGHTS
Well my humor is sometimes off the wall Shaggy, my piss test would be as clean as yours and about your pack, I am almost 61 and I do pushups by the hundreds so I doubt your pack is lighter.
The more gun you can handle is always better, and your 308 is nothing more than a 3220 revolver or a 32 hr in power, nothing more. And I have never seen anybody advocate that. In real world hunting conditions, deer don’t usually stand around and give you that ideal shot from a bench.
Yes there are plenty of people here who can do it with a 22, I have killed truck loads of them with a 22, but like I have said, I was the only guy out there and they were not being chased and I had a good blood trailing dog.
I have lost game before, and I do not like to advise someone to take up a rifle that will not do the job under all circumstances and then experience the heartbreak of a lost animal.
RJ kills deer with his 9mm and does a bang up job of it, he is an expert at it, would I recommend everyone here do that, no not every body has the skill and woodscraft of people like RJ.
But airgunners tend to want to prove their toys work on big game, I say compare it to powder burner calibers they dupicate and see how well they work, not just under ideal circumstances, but any circumstances.
I, and others can’t say or do anything that will stop you from doing this, perhaps you will have good luck, I hope you do.
Roachcreek
Is it just me or has this thread gone from happy to silly to sublime?
Here’s my take (as I don’t want this argument to ever end now!):
1. No .308 making 200 or less FPE is ever going to spin or skin or knockdown or have any dramatic effect on a deer! Ain’t going to happen, it will kill the deer and may even cause it to stumble or fall from the surprise of being shot but there will not be some silly movie reaction unless the deer is hooked to a stuntman harness and jerked off it’s feet…like they do in the movies.
2. A 115-130gr .308 slug going at 800+fps muzzle velocity and hitting a deer that is 45 yards from the muzzle and assuming the hit is in the head or the heart/lung killzone, is going to kill that deer. Just like all those .22 shots from back when ammo was too expensive and food was scarce…the deer are no tougher now. A good shot at 45 yards will kill the deer.
3. A .45 making similar or slightly higher power will be a better choice as it makes a bigger hole. A .50 will be even better. A .58 will be better yet. A .62 will be awesome! A 20mm will be incredible! A .87 will be…
4. I think we need to assume that the hunter using the tool will be able to place his shot instead of assuming every guy who says he’s going to hunt with a certain gun has to write his post for the guy that couldn’t hit water falling from a boat.
5. Does a deer have to die in less than a step for an ethical kill? Really, what’s the freaking standard here? 100 yards to bleed out and stop living off adrenalin seems fine to me. Certainly a far easier death than any provided by a non-human predator in the wild. (Yes, I’m aware humans hold themselves to standards while predators just want a meal but how merciful do you need to be when killing something?)
6. What about the poor shot? Well, how poor? Hit the kill zone with a .308 and the deer dies. Miss the kill zone with a 7mm and the deer runs. I’ll bet a lot more deer have died agonizing deaths after being shot with huge guns that hit them way back in the gut or in the legs than have ever even been shot with an airgun. Is there some standard for poor shots? Are folks supposed to figure that they can’t suggest hunting with less than a belted magnum because the death time from a piss poor shot exceeds a certain standard? Is there a crap shot to tracking ratio or aim to tracking skill ratio we have not heard of? If goober fuzzy vision decides to go hunting with his 20mm cannon, is it OK despite the fact that he can barely aim?
That must be some dynamite shit your smoking, I sure never got off on the stuff I had like that. 😆
And in Oregon we have some good pot.
Now on a serious note Shaggy, in order to learn, you have to listen.
Roachcreek
LOL gottcha there my Friend I’m too old to listen 😉
Never used the pot, don’t drink or smoke or Chew, rather boring guy, but I bet my back Pack is lighter than you’rs 😆
As I done said, you guys build them and I’ll shoot them, and come Deer season , if this 308 is still shooting, I will post a picture of the Kill so you can erat your heart out, and while you’re doing it smoke some good pot, and then it will be your turn to listen 😆
I’ll be 59 in september so if I don’t know what I’m doing now, I’m a mirical of Mother Nature for I have hunted all my Life, and still love it.
Thank you old Bud for the help, hey man it’s all in fun. 😀
Shaggy,
That must be some dynamite shit your smoking, I sure never got off on the stuff I had like that. 😆
And in Oregon we have some good pot.
Now on a serious note Shaggy, in order to learn, you have to listen.
Roachcreek
And how wide are the cutting blades on that 32 HR dupicate your using?
Will it keep cutting like a broadhead when the animal runs?
Go ask your State Game Department what they think of this 115 grn 308 at 900 fps elephant gun.
Roachcreek
Well I use 1 and 1/4 broad heads. My arrow is a 2219 22 inches long, so with the 125 grain broad head at 190 FPS, gives somewhere around 39 or 40 foot pounds of energy if my calculator is right, the trick is to shoot a sharp broad head. Now if that bow shot at 882 FPS with same arrow 463 grains, it would be awesome.
But it will shoot 190, and it will shoot straight through a deer no problem. Crank teh Bow wide open and use teh proper weight and it still wont do teh 300 FPS that the manufacturer says it will, so I crank it back to about 60 pounds and no more speed than I loose can’t be seen with the naked eye.
I know the DNR wont let us use the Pellet gun on Government land but I have my own land. But in the other county they wont let you use any gun to deer hunt with.
I can get over 800 FPS in the 130 grain hollow points, and if I can dig one out I’ll post it, it’s flat as a dime, and even at 300FPS it will make a big hole I found that out with the other one that messed up.
Just a matter of preference, and the love of the sport.My Condor will shoot 43 grain pellets over 900 FPS so I have a good set up, Thanks for teh reply and the help. I’m open minded about all of it and always ready to learn. 😆
LOL what a post, you are true in the world of amateurs. Do you think I would let a kid in the woods with a bow he cant shoot well, or a gun he cant hit a watermelon at 15 yards?
Here in our home place we learn our Kids to hunt, it starts with mostly a daisy Red Ryder BB gun and a Kids Bow, and when they have been in the blind with us , and hunted around the house for Rabbits and Squirrels, and some night hunting for Opossum, and using some Dogs for tracking and hunting, they usually by the time they are in Junior High School have done killed a Deer with a Rifle slug fired from a 20 Gage New England Modified Barrel.
And as far as teh 45 Auto goes, it will kill a moose as fast as a 308 High Powered rifle, but of course not at 100 yards.
So really the Schooling is unnecessary, most Ive seen here are pretty good machinist and I’d love to have some of their air rifles, they are a champ, and I’m sure they know the limitations.
I don’t use a Pellet rifle any further than 45 yards, Ive said that several times.
The 308 I got will flip a deer over and might even skin it out 😆
But We don’t shoot 70 yard shots with a Bow we use about 20 to 35 yards, and we dint need a pellet rifle that will stack a pellet on top of a pellet at 100 yards, were not into competition we just need it to kit the kill zone anywhere between the end of the muzzle out to 45 yards, thats it.
My 308 will shoot about maybe 1/4 low on 15 yards and the picture I posted shows the 40 yard shot. Thats a deer in the heart or Both lungs at teh distant I shoot it, any further and I have plenty high powered rifles in any caliber from a 223 to a 4570 Gvt. 😛
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Median would be 295 FPE and thats good.
I graphed the 308 Air rifle it is from 198.3 to 207.76 FPE depending on the pellet. And the Muzel loader was loaded 1/2 load I have and I might take it to the range and check it to see how much FPE it has with 50 grain. It will be interesting.
Ive reloaded bullets for years, and I know how fast at what speed guns shoot all way down to the 25 ACP which is a good gun but it is not accurate because for one thing the 25 ACP wont do what teh book says it will, and #2 they have a high fowling ratio. Have to clean them every clip to make sure you got them right 😀