Re: Matador Reg kit to get .25 34gr JSBs up to speed
The EDgun regulator is one of the best in the world. It is straightforward and efficient. The regulator is capable of almost 1 FPS extreme spread. Wingman did an excellent video where he showed that variation is caused by external factors, not the regulator. So the Huma advantage comes from its low profile, this gives more volume in the plenum. I would put it on par with the Edgun regulator regarding efficiency
In the standard, the speed I can achieve realistically is 790 to 810 with the Huma and 34s. The long will hit about 830 max. I don’t like the current set up, and I would like to run the regulator at 120 and get speeds of 880 in the long with 34s. I have some ideas how to do it, and Wingman is going to help.
So be patient I am working on a solution to get more speed and not redline the capability of the Matador
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When it is ready it will be announced. Testing first.
Thanks. So ‘the project’ is to improve Matador .25 efficiency with JSB King Heavies, right? I hope you will announce once the kit is available to buy, won’t you?
Heres a look into some 300y MOA progress with the 34gr pellet at high speeds in a fast twist, last year I built a test rig with a “vintage” BSA lonestar barrel that provided the best long range accuracy and B.C during my testing of many barrels set up on a test rig consisting of a buddy bottle fed HUMA reg in a short tube with a large plenum and custom receiver, it is my pellet/barrel testing platform but will soon be integrated into my .25cal Matador long.
My test rig is embarrassingly industrial looking in its current prototype stages and I had it bolted down to a lump of scrap walnut on sand bags for the long range shots..
For this test it was tuned to a velocity of 1025fps. While these speeds may give semi average groups at 100 yards, once the pellet slows down its high drag skirt design self stabilizes it as it slows down so by 200yds with this velocity I have documented some of the tightest airgun groups I have ever seen. Im talking 1/2 moa at 200y consistently with cooperating conditions.
After a sight in session, my first shot just missed the gong at 300y and you can see its impact in the sand bank about an inch right of the gong.
after a little windage correction the next 5 hit with a convincing clang!
My calculations say that this pellet is impacting at this range with a solid 24ftlbs still and the state of these couple of recovered pellets would back that up..
“Just” outside a 3″ group in light breezes.. this new pellet has more potential than people realise.
Ok guys.. Im receiving a lot of questions in regards to this upgrade and questions regarding my workings with Huma Air.
Here’s how it is so I dont have to respond to a hundred emails..
No this will not break valves. I have designed this upgrade in such a way that it actually puts less load on the valve not more.
As a side note, Ed upgraded his valve a few years ago not long after the first batch of R3 .25cal guns came out and the problem arose. His initial valve in the R2 and early R3 was designed for a 35ftlbs .22 system so in the first of the .25cal guns they were put under more load. Many broke so Ed was quick to rectify the problem by shortening the valves tail and thickening it where the brass insert fits into the plastic stem. This has fixed the early broken valve issue in the .25cal Matadors.
If you have an early steel breech R3 .25cal it may pay to check you have this new thicker/shorter valve installed. They are in stock and availble from Brian at Edgun west.
No I do not work for Huma Air, I am not on anyone’s payroll and I do this for the love of my hobby. This I hope keeps my credibility and integrity to all when you see what I have to say about any product.
I share these ideas with PCP manufacturers, aftermarket part manufacturers such as Huma Air and individuals like Brian at Edgun west who I believe have the same ideology and aspiration for quality and progressive innovation as I do in the hopes of moving our PCP technology forward for all to enjoy.
My cooperation with Huma air has come from working “with” them over the years on various projects and service for their products in New Zealand.
Some who follow my NZ forum will have seen me years ago pleading with JSB and certain barrel makers to produce a heavier .25gr diabolo designed pellet and faster twist rates to achieve longer “pellet capable” ranges in this caliber than ever has been achieved before.
Watch this space…
This little project is really just part of a much bigger picture, my timely goal for MOA at 300y will be achievable in .25cal production guns in the not too distant future while seemingly flagship companies that are masters of nothing but advertising like FX still struggle through the wake of others in the hopes to hit moa at 200yards..
I am very happy to share my ideas with Huma as they share the same ideology and aspiration for quality at reasonable user value and progressive innovation as I do.. I have yet to work with anyone else who can take a rough drawing of an idea and produce a prototype for me to test, productionize it for the best operation in the best aircraft grade alloys, as well as find the easiest/cheapest way to produce on the CNC machines and get them into your hot sweaty hands as a drop in affordable part within a couple of weeks.
So to answer your question, yes the end product will be produced by the good team Huma Air and be available though Brian at Edgun West.
With the help of Brian at Edgun west with some joint testing and brain storming I have produced a proof of concept prototype in my workshop and used a std Edgun reg for testing purposes and we are now in the process of drawing up the new parts to suit Huma’s more compact reg that and easily adjusted without a reg tester for ease of customer installation and tuning.
They will go into CNC production within the next few days.
Please understand, in these early stages of development I cant show too many pictures or share too much sensitive information, this is to protect Humas investment into my ideas as there are many shameless copycats as you have seen in the past who like to step on others toes just to make a dollar and say they thought of it first.. (see the sub 12ftlbs Leshiy reg and P12 reg threads) This is another reason I have chosen to share my work with Huma Air, they are speedy and trustworthy.
Once the product is in production I will share more and give tuning tips etc.
Best regards to all (especially the ones I intentionally offended) Wingman 😉
Please shed some light on ‘the project’.
In that case, count me in when you guys have the final product for sale.
Wingman, when “the project” is going to be ready? I am interested in pushing .25 heavies at reasonable speed. Is it going to be provided by Huma?
The std will do about 960 to 980fps with the heavies at a guess. My R3 is a first batch steel breech and has one of the first of Eds .25 barrels on it which is as you say tight choked. It loves the kings but doesnt shoot the heavies well at all. Ed has changed the choke on the newer R3Ms to a much lighter one that shoots certain types of 34gr pellets very well. There are 5 different length, head size and center punch designs on the new 34gr heavies and some do better than others.
This was not an exercise to see if my gun liked the 34gr as I know it doesnt.. It is an experiment to see what the .25 Matador can do with these pellets when the reg and plenum is modified to supply more air.
The end product will likely shoot at a more modest and accurate 900 to 930fps as the speeds I have got from it would require a different barrel to shoot well.
Wow, that’s impressive. What do you estimate those numbers would that translate to in the standard? Also, I think I remember reading that the Edgun choke really hinders accuracy at higher speeds. Have you had a chance to shoot groups with the Heavies at 1000fps?
the .25 Matador long gives me a little over 1000 fps with the 34gr pellets..
With all the same settings this gives 1100fps with 25.4gr kings
1000 fps with heavies??? :8: :8:
An evening in the workshop and some serious tuning time and I have a prototype for testing..
the .25 Matador long gives me a little over 1000 fps with the 34gr pellets..
With all the same settings this gives 1100fps with 25.4gr kings
I have 34-grain pellets in stock waiting for this project; they have a slightly smaller head compared to the MkII, and the EDgun brand has a different punch. My sample plenum is on the way as I type, if it works I’ll ask Huub to make a kit
I’m guessing your solution has something to do with increasing the plenum size. Perhaps a machined, aftermarket extension that can be screwed in? Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
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For both old and new regulators?