The new Talon P
I received an e mail from AirForce today stating that the pistol will be shipping in limited quantitys by August 31 and the MSRP is $421.00. You can call in your order at 1877 247 4867 if you like.
Benson.
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I still don’t understand that concept. The tophat setting is irrelevent if the tophat never strikes the valve body, which it should not.
Here are the numbers form two very different setups with nearly the same finishing velocity which can only be achieved by adjusting the tophat (and no contact with the valve body):
177 cal pellet, 10 grains, Talon valve tophat set at 0.070″ PW set to max, 900fps velocity.
25 cal pellet, 30 grains, Talon valve tophat set at 0.110″ PW set to max, 800 fps velocity.
If I was to shoot the 177 cal pellets with a th setting of 0.110 and the PW maxed out I would hit 1100fps velocity without any problems. Only through tuning the tophat can I get the same setup to bridge between 30 grain 25 cal and 10 grain 17 cal pellets… And if it’s the only thing I adjusted it must change things right?
It has been known and understood for years that the tophat effects the pellet velocity or the output of air. Apart from the powerwheel (which I consider and adjustment) it’s the next easiest way to tune the rifle. You can also tune the rifle to conserve air with the tophat setting.
If you plan on shooting heavy slugs you will need to adjust your tophat to get the higher velocities. AF adjusts the th to fill the gap between the breech and the th when the bolt is closed. This can result in excessive velocities with lighter pellets in the smaller calibers or a total waste of air and low shot count for any caliber. AF sets them up not for economy but almost randomly.
If you get a Talon tank from the factory without a rifle attached to it the th gap will be 0.080″ if you get one with a rifle the gap can be as large as 0.120″. The two tanks will produce different velocities with the same rifle settings until the tophat is adjusted to make then the same.
If you do a test with starting and ending pressures with different tophat settings you will see the difference a little tophat tuning can yield.
Oh and don’t believe anything AF tells you. Like the 22 12″ barrel won;t work on a Talon ‘P’, it will if you adjust the tophat to get it to work for the lighter pellet… 😉
Thanks shaggy for all the input.
You have a Stubby and a Super Stubby… 😆
The thing that is absolutely true is this new pistol will get a lot more people into the AF platform because so many things can be switched out.
And for even less money you can go from a P to a TalonDor with all used parts out there in huge quantities!!!
As much as the pistol tag appears pointless I see why AF has done this and in some crazy way it makes total sense to me. 😆
Tune down the tophat, lighter hammer spring and smaller tophat gap with some light 22 caliber pellets in a 12″ 22 barrel and this thing may produce a good shot count.
It’s also a shorter pull length for the youngins and for people who have issues with the ETac length.
Even the ETac and reg would make the rifle a good length for the average person. I know a few people who haven’t got the ETac reg and extension because it make the rifle too long. With a reg this little tank will shine!!!
I still don’t understand that concept. The tophat setting is irrelevent if the tophat never strikes the valve body, which it should not.
Now do you see what I mean. 😉
Step the hiflo valve tophat gap up to 0.100 and it will match or exceed the new valve. Doesn’t really mean anything except you opened the throttle up more on one than the other.
Which is faster a Honda four cylinder going 100mph or a Chevy V8 going 100mph? 😆 Neither right?
I do believe the new valve is hotter, setting them at the same tophat gap is meaningless in terms of actually comparing them though. You need to set them at the same velocity on the same sized tank and see how much air they use or get them on the same sized tank and see how fast they will push a super heavy slug when set to max.
Now if someone is brave enough to put the new internals into a hiflo valve body we’d be in business… 😆
A little Surefire slug testing and we would see what’s going on here.
I think this new valve stem is a winner for AF! 😉
That is correct you are 100% right. But I just added the extra hammer weight and it done better so I left it alone LMBO…
One time I had a 5 string Gibson master tone banjo, and I kept tightening the head and adding different bridges and changing strings, heck I even changed the frosted head to a clear head.
Regardless of what I did, I couldn’t make that banjo sound like Earl Scruggs banjo,. So I sold it only to find out when they recorded old Earls Banjo they had something I didn’t :reverb: Uh Hu tricked me again Earl.
So now if they ring like a bell, thats fine ROFLMBO….Since all that unessessary work I learned that if ti isnt brok dont fix it,, and the Little Rascle is shooting as fast as I have ever wanted a pellet to fly anyway and the test was on33 on the wheel, I set it on 88 and got the 43.2 to go over the 800 FPS mark I think it ws close to 60 Foot pounds, and I backed it back to the 33 and it done in the 750’s and 760’s and I said Heck that Dog will hunt. 😛
If you got the Condor you would have a 12″ and 24″ barreled Condor for $50 less and the 12″ barrel would be quieter than the TalonDor’P’…
Considering all that synopsys said, I agree.
The Talon P is short a shroud, so if one wants a nice small airgun, then my guess is to buy this:
1 – Condor or Talon SS frame (internal parts) = $295 – $275
2 – Talon P tank = $150 (guess – available in 3-4 months))
3 – 12″ barrel = $118
4 – Baffle the rest of the frame = $50
TOTAL = $613
You do realize if you buy a car by buying all the parts it will be about 200%-300% more expensive than buying the car fully assembled…
The TalonP is cheap because it’s their way of getting rid of their Talon frames that nobody buys.
EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS A STUBBY HAS IT BECAUSE IT’S A SS FRAME. They want it quiet. Otherwise you might as well just own a Condor 25. The 12″ barrel is horribly inefficient compared to the 24″ barrel. The TalonSS with a shroud is going to be quieter than the TalonP with the same shroud unless the shroud closes off the frame chamber, which is then pointless on a TalonSS frame if keeping the rifle as short as possible is the key.
Putting a shroud on a stubby is also somewhat pointless if keeping the rifle short is the key.
What I don’t get is why have a hipower setup with an extra tiny bottle… But it now turns out the Rogue big bore has a smaller tank than the regular AF bottle… 😕
Can someone take a measurement from the collar to the end of the bottle on the TalonP?
A regular bottle is 12″ long.
I now have 2 stuby’s one I made and the other with the little bottle. The stubby is a good take anywhere gun that will kill out to my specks with an air rifle which is 45 yards Max on any air rifle.
I know people kills further, birds and field mice and moles, But to use the gun for it’s potentual, 45 yards is the distance. 17 caliber will kill effectively birds crows mice moles and even head shots on snakes at that distance, 22 will kill Squlrells and Rabbits Racoons Possums at that distance.
25 will kill fox and Coyotes and the 308 will Uh hu LOLOL…The stubby is what I take to my shop when i’m there just tinkering or shooting my Bow or working on the truck, and if a varmint comes by it could have a bad day,,, I missed a Coyote chasing a fawn through my yard because my gun was in the shack and I wasn’t in time to give it a 20 yard”estimate” shot. Being I can keep it any where, I use my air for everything accept self protection and for that I use my 44 Mangum with 240 grains of silver tip make my day fire power 😉
I had two Talon vales on the full size tanks with the tophats set at the same exact dimension, one shot 200-300fps lower/higher than the other.
Now do you see what I mean. 😉
Step the hiflo valve tophat gap up to 0.100 and it will match or exceed the new valve. Doesn’t really mean anything except you opened the throttle up more on one than the other.
Which is faster a Honda four cylinder going 100mph or a Chevy V8 going 100mph? 😆 Neither right?
I do believe the new valve is hotter, setting them at the same tophat gap is meaningless in terms of actually comparing them though. You need to set them at the same velocity on the same sized tank and see how much air they use or get them on the same sized tank and see how fast they will push a super heavy slug when set to max.
Now if someone is brave enough to put the new internals into a hiflo valve body we’d be in business… 😆
A little Surefire slug testing and we would see what’s going on here.
I think this new valve stem is a winner for AF! 😉
I never adjusted the condor or the Talon-P valve, and I made a feeler gage for the Condor when I first got it and both valves are the same distance.
I just shot at 3000 PSI in the Small tank 45 yards with a 31 grain red top Kodiak Pellet, and you can cover all 3 shots easily with a dime, By the ruller it mesured 1/2″ For a little tank It sure carries a punch.
Ive shot 3/4 and 1″ groups consistantly with the other guns I have, but that is the first 3 shot group I have shot to date that hit that close.
Allowing for me or the gun, the gun will out shoot me. 😯
Now I’ll take the Mic and mesure the feeler gage.
The gap is .090 on both tanks.
I’m holding the small tank in my hand, it says 0.21L 0.31KG The tank without mesuring the valve is 7 and 3/8th inches long and 2 inches wide,
The valve “threads off”” is 2″ to the top of the top hat..once screwed in the gun it will have about 1/2 inch plus the length of the tank behind the threads making it 7 and 7/8 inches behind the threads of the gun.
It is still possible to lay your cheek on the end of the tank but it takes a little getting used to. 😀 Depends on how long your scope is mine is a 3 to 9 rear varable. Mildot..
So it’s 7 1/2″ long… Looks to be a smaller diameter too, so about or less than half the air volume in the ‘P’ tank.
It sooooooo cute… 😆
I would say volume is about 1/4 to 1/5.
Shaggy – we need some exact measurements.
I suspect the directflo valve is ported similar to the Extreme valve from R&L. I don’t believe the smaller tank with the directflo valve will exceed the hiflo valve with the big tank if the hiflo tophat was set to do so.
I would venture to say that AF changed the stem in order to get similar velocities from the mini tank that would match the hiflo valve in the full size tank. 😉
The best combo of tank and valve would be the direct flo valve stem and spring in a big tank if it is at all possible to get the internals to switch. I believe this setup would be similar or equal to the R&L Extreme valve setup.
I would petition AF to start selling the new valve internals in a full size valve body on their 25 caliber Condor setups. 😉 That would be a nice multi-ring slug pusher for sure.
I’m still trying to figure out if the volume of the tank effects the output pressure through the opening… My suspicion is that it does and thus the reason for the ‘new’ valve besides the mouth opening size difference. But i’m no physics major, I just took the course in college. 😆
SO if that little tank sent a pellet like that big tank then which valve is better (loosely used term). I would say the little one ???
Ah, awesome, thanks.
So it’s 7 1/2″ long… Looks to be a smaller diameter too, so about or less than half the air volume in the ‘P’ tank.
It sooooooo cute… 😆
I can get a 25cal 30 grain pellet going 800 fps with a Talon valve… 😕 😯
Can you please measure and post the tophat gaps on you hiflo and directflo vavles… 😉
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Finally, you said something that makes sense 😯
The TopHat adjustment is a preload to opening against the valve spring. Why didn’t you just say that 🙄