Ranger 45
Well I have a tracking number for the Ranger 45 that was assembled, test fired, chronyed, and shipped today.
28 inch barrel, standard stock and black crerakote finish, $1230 dollars including shipping.
To early to get the arrival date, it is not in the system yet.
Chrony numbers were:
Round ball. low setting 3000 PSI……1018 FPS
225………. low setting 3000 PSI……..877 FPS
405 shot 1 hi setting 4500 PSI………804 FPS
340 shot 2 hi setting 4500 PSI………843 FPS
These numbers will improve by 30 to 50 FPS as the rifle breaks in.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Accurate molds shipped my mold today, so I pulled the trigger on the bullet casting equipment from Midway.
Got a Lyman Furnace, a Lyman ladle, a set of RCBS handles, Moly lube.
From Rotometals I bought 34 lbs of 20-1 alloy, at that price, $101.XX, I got free shipping.
Next month I will order that EPP/UG mold and a lead themometer.
Then I am done buying air gun stuff ❗
Yeah right.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Jerry,
Well some laugh at Lee sizing dies for bullets, and realize I have nothing good to say about their other equipment, having had a several priming tools that I had in continous rotation thru their warrantee cycle.
I had two furnaces that leaked constantly, and only used one of them with the base mounted backwards and screwed to my bench top to feed a Corbin core mold. I did have pretty good luck with two of their 6 cavity 225 45 acp molds.
But being as I ended up being a pan/cake SPG black powder luber, if I sized at all it was with a Rockchucker and a Lee sizing die, I found far less distrotion in the process.
I once bought a 45/70 Ruger #1, I ordered a Lee 500 grain roundnose mold and a set of Lee dies, before I knew better, there was not enough adjustment in the dies to load that bullet. I ended up having to get another set of RCBS dies to load for the 45/70, but then I admit that I did have a problem with hording reloading tools.
Go figure.
When I see the uninformed advise the questioning beginner to buy Lee tools, I almost puke.
Regards,
Roackhcreek
RC,
The Ranger looks very well made and it’s clear that Dan had safety in mind and designed the parts to hold high pressure.
You are right that even laboratory pure lead will not bump up to fill the barrel. The bullets need to be sized according to the bore but also according to the bullet design. Sizing would also come into play when changing the alloy but with reduced lubricity and no performance enhancement of properly sized near pure lead… I’ll stick to the near pure and work the other variables.
One thing to ponder as you experiment with the slugs is their interaction with the actual function of the gun. A slug that has a tighter fit or is longer or has wider drive rings will have a greater resistance to initial movement. That causes breech pressure to build a little higher before the slug takes off. That, in turn, reduces the pressure differential across the valve allowing it to stay open a little longer and flow a bit more air. The differences are small but not insignificant.
You might want to get a set of sizing dies from Lee so you can triple the experimentation with any given slug! 😆 😆 😆
Jerry,
That increase in diameter, you found beneficial in the DAQ, may be why those little slugs Butcher sent me work so well, they were 454 and my bore is 452, and reinforces the fact that air guns do not bump or give an initial upset to the bullet to seal the bore.
And I don’t think you really lose much energy when you pull the trigger and as a result resize that slug down 2 thousands in just about tripple the distance in the bore, especially with the alloy we use.
Might actually give it a little more punch.
The breech design of the Ranger, in regards to air pressure containment, is almost double the fill pressure.
regards,
Roachcreek
I don’t think I’d bother buying any bullets with the gas check installed. While it could generate a bit of trivia, there’s a chance that it could go wrong as well. It springs to mind that a gas check on a bullet might not react well with a barrel that has been reamed for a particular slug length. Use 40K of pressure and maybe all is well but use 3k of pressure and maybe you do some bit of damage.
The slugs we nade for Butcher’s hunting pal were just simple, off the shelf Lee designs that I bought to service the DAQ market. Obviously, we don’t install the gas check. Those slugs are both about 112-115gr and have a stepped bas for a gas check. We were first asked to make .308s but after a bit of experimentation, it turned out the DAQ shot much better with the slug sized to .310. A couple thou can make a big difference!
Might work for that over and under shot wad, in a air shotgun,but cardboard fiber board would be better.
The problem is, that when you pry them off you usually find the base messed up from the crimping of the gas check and the subsequent removal. At least the bullets I have seated them on incorrectly and then removed were usually destined to the remelt pile.
In air guns it is simply the answer to a unasked question.
But it would be simple enough to test and see what effect it has on both velocity and accuracy with it on and the results of removing it.
Regards,
Roachcreek
I guess I never even thought that anyone would actually put the gas check on for air rifle use! Yeah, I suppose actually installing the check would reduce speed for no advantage…unless you need to scrape some leading!
I have personally prevented a few people from shooting jacketed slugs in their air rifles (though JMag shoots some sort of Jacketed in his….XTP’s I think).
Butcher,
I guess I never even thought that anyone would actually put the gas check on for air rifle use! Yeah, I suppose actually installing the check would reduce speed for no advantage…unless you need to scrape some leading!
Thanks Butcher!!
Went out a couple of weekends ago and was shooting 6″-8″ groups at 25 yards off hand. The down side was I ran through most of my round ball supply in that caliber. 😆 My friend broguht his 1911 pistol and we never got around to firing it. 😉
It (it being the EPP/UG) has been working in many BP cartridge, and smokeless .45ACP/.45Colt guns as well…..even in muzzleloading rifles. More versatile than most would have thought such a short/light slug could be.
Saweet!!! 😀
Thanks Butcher!!
Went out a couple of weekends ago and was shooting 6″-8″ groups at 25 yards off hand. The down side was I ran through most of my round ball supply in that caliber. 😆 My friend broguht his 1911 pistol and we never got around to firing it. 😉
And are there any projectiles besides roundballs that would work in a BP revolver. I guess snubnose bullets work in revolvers… Did I just answer my own question? 😕
The EPP/UG’s were originally designed to improve on the performance of roundball in C@B revolvers, then they later proved to be usedful in other BP applications. All the BigLube designs (including the 260grainer RC tested that didn’t work out) are designed for black powder….they have a few C@B .45 designs to try in a 1858. Check out the ROA2
Quick question for reloading and casting. Would those half round bullets work in a BP 1858 revolver?
And are there any projectiles besides roundballs that would work in a BP revolver. I guess snubnose bullets work in revolvers… Did I just answer my own question? 😕
WhyteLeatherworks (in approx. BHN9-10 lead only), DashCaliber, and Ironmule (Tom Buchanon ironmule@wildblue.net)
If someone were to ask me “what is a gas check”?, I would tell them it is a little ring of metal placed at the base of a cast firearm slug, and that it’s my understanding that it is there to protect the base from extreme firearm pressures. I don’t look at a naked lead boolit and call it a “gas check”…..I’d call that a gas check design. Not sure if that is what’s common or proper, just how I’ve always said it, and understood it from others.
When I see folks ask about shooting “gas checks” in bigbore airguns, it seems they are talking about shooting slugs with the actual “gas check” on them a great deal of the time, and not asking about “gas check designs”. So yes, even though I haven’t proven it for myself, I would expect a gas check to reduce velocity as far as airguns go. I have seen several people shoot, and hunt with gas check designs. I went hunting with a guy that was using at least one, maybe two .308 gas-check designs offered by SureFire (Jerry) that worked well in his DAQ .308 we chronied them and they were making great power in his rifle.
The relevant correlations I see between projectiles shot from firearms, and projectiles shot from airguns are found mostly in the external ballistics department as far as performance on game, trajectory, etc. Whether or not alloy hardness plays a role in barrel leading in an air rifle, and to what extent is something I would like to see thoroughly tested in 1000+fps bigbores by a few different folks so we can see the results. Hopefully those results would be definitive, so nobody would ever have to debate the issue further. But that’s quite the stretch there, isn’t it?
I have in the past seen some bigbore airgun folks claim that harder lead proved to be more accurate in their rifles……never saw any real definitive accuracy testing from most of them though, let alone the specific slugs they were speaking of.
Personally, in my 260-280fpe .45 airgun with Korean barrel I’ve seen good velocity and accuracy using slugs cast in anything from near pure lead, to maybe BHN10 alloy (which is about as hard an alloy as I have ever shot from my tuned SamYang) at 700-880fps tops. Still considered to be “soft” alloy in the PB world…….many shooters wouldn’t even call BHN10 anywhere near “hardcast”.
I like the idea of being able to use a harder alloy for casting airgun slugs for personal use because there are some alloys out there (such as wheel weight) that can be had for cheap if you know where to look. Would be nice to have for stretching the pure lead supply, and the slugs wouldn’t get damaged so easily. From what I understand, the harder alloys are much easier to cast with then pb+2%tin.
I also like the idea of using a harder solid slug on big game because it seems the right hard alloy would deal with heavy bone a bit better. Near pure lead is working just great with my predator hunting, though.
As far as the EPP/UG (El Paso Pete Ultra-Gamer) design that RC shot that 6 shot group with…..it wasn’t originally intended for bigbore airguns, but they have consistently worked great for me when it comes to target/plinking/smaller animals for four years.
Now several folks are having great luck with the EPP/UG design in their 909 guns. WillP shoots groups right at an inch at 100yards with them using a tuned 909S refilled for each shot (WillP is also a multi-time state champion airgun benchrest shooter).
I’ve recently recommended a few folks on the Yellow, and Adventures try them in their Sam Yangs as an inexpensive, super-lightweight alternative to RB that should put a much nicer hole in animals than RB, is more efficient on air than RB, and even cheaper than RB. Some of them ordered some EP/UG’s, and from the reports on both paper, and game that they came back with I’d say the slug works as well in their SamYangs as it does in mine……all shooting groups right at an inch or under c-to-c@50 yards.
Another thing: the last several folks to order them have tried shooting them unsized like I do, which is about .456-.458 depending on who you get them from, and of course the alloy. Un-sized slugs have been working well in the 909 guns. The narrow bands seem like they would be very forgiving….especially with the slightly reduced heel.
I have heard only one “bad” report from a 909 owner that has tried the EPP/UG’s in the four years since I “discovered” their performance in 909 guns. It has been in the last year or so that more people have been starting to try them. Nomadic Pirates’ success with them on hog didn’t hurt there. The second worst report was 1.5inch c-to-c groups at 50 yards. Everyone I have been in contact with (about 6 people) that is shooting them in a 909 seems to be getting considerably better than 1.5incat good of a track record.
Off of the top of my head, this .45Ranger would be the second rifle I have seen these EPP/UG’s shot from that wasn’t a Sam Yang. It’s great to see them working in RC’s .45 Ranger, which I think has much deeper rifling than a Korean barrel.
The EPP/UG is a solid airgun boolit design in a 909, a custom one-off .45 and RC’s Ranger for targets/plinking, and critters that have vitals a lot smaller than a pie plate. The best shots I’ve ever taken on game were with this boolit.
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The guys over at the CastBoolits forum used to put in tons of group buy mold orders to Lee, but not so much anymore. To many molds dropping oversize/undersize to the point of being un-useable for the purpose. Not what you want to see after waiting for months on end for the mold to arrive. Competition has since stepped up to the plate with the mold group buys.
My impression is that the sizers pressing the slug from the base, rather than the nose are more desirable?