Ranger 45

pb,

I guess we should all say “without gas check installed” when referencing these molds that might be useful to us!

I think when it comes to empirical evidence, it’s clear that projectiles specifically designed for airguns yield the best accuracy. But, that design and tailoring gets expensive fast when you start adding up the cost of cutting custom molds, and only the last one is a keeper!

That means that airgunners are always looking for a cheap mold or a cheap bag of slugs that just happens to work great in their gun. Nothing wrong with that at all. You just have to realize that the slug search is for a projectile that managed to pass the powderburner test for a specific use and now it happens to work in a specific airgun and as it turns out, the PB shooters have paid all the amortization costs for the slugs and/or molds.

I’m often amused by folks that think just because a particular slug works well in a low velocity PB application that it has to be good for their uber power airgun. Often, they get disappointed because they can only get a 2″ group at 100 yards. They then compare that to the very rare sub-half MOA groups that get posted for other airguns and think they wasted money on a crap design. Of course, if they did a bunch of research, they would discover that the PB guys were delighted with a 2″ group at 100 and the super slug never consistently beat 2″ in it’s intended application! These guys are trying to get perfection for cheap and it just don’t work that way! They might be getting better accuracy than 90% of the pb guys that ever shot that slug but it isn’t good enough. The worst part is that some of these perfectionists are claiming to be hunters of game with pie plate sized kill zones (even for airgun shot slugs). The fact is, if you’re hunting bigger game and can aim as well as you do with a pb, you don’t need a half moa slug. If you want to kill an Elk or a bear or a deer at 150-200 yards, there are several airguns that can do that. There are far fewer shooters that can do that! That’s why we see the constant, never ending conflation of accuracy with trajectory. Piss poor shooters that want to shoot airguns but want the POS airguns to shoot like lasers so they don’t have to range estimate and correct for distance.

Then there’s the other end of the spectrum that thinks that because their 4000fps 6mm shoots a .015″ group at 100 yards (if a real champion is doing the shooting) their airgun with the cheap commercial slugs derived from slugs designed for a different purpose ought to shoot just as well. Yeah, and if I buy a prize hog, I can raise million dollar a pop stud horses!

Sorry for the rant but I think we often get expectations completly f’ed up here. Buy a commercial slug made for a different application and you just might get lucky and have a good load for your gun. Buy a mold for a slug you think/hope will work in your gun and you might just get lucky or have your research confirmed within your expectations. But if you think that there is a simple transfer function between what someone else sees as acceptable accuracy and the higher standard “you” have; well, it don’t work that way.

How many of the pb slugs/molds that can be bought cheap have ever produced MOA accuracy in any gun? We seem to think that airguns ought to be in that range because a couple guys on their best days with the best conditions can get there. Fact is, very few of the world’s most successful (so far) snipers ever had a gun capable of routine sub MOA groups….unless they were shooting the special hand rubbed model at Camp Perry! Go back and look at what Carlos Hathcock was shooting and tell me that sub-MOA is important! Of course, he didn’t have to kill sparrows at 1000 yards….

The amount of twisted expectation and mis-applied pb history here and throughout the web is staggering! The way materials react to impulse vs. ultimate velocities is ignored. The fact that bhn testing was not done and/or done VERY roughly way back when is suddenly important when the actual results show 0 impact at the velocities we shoot without hot gas erosion… Scaling of results from one velocity or one caliber to another is just simple guess work… yeah, untill you are called on to put money on the line and produce! I’ve actually spent the coin to scale a slug and got burned to the tune of hundreds of dollars and I started with a successful AIRGUN slug! So, I’m a little underwhelmed when I read about the history majors making unambiguous and supposedly factual statements based on history of projectiles never ever tested or even fired from an airgun! The very next order Timmy will produce is for a customer unhappy with the performence of a pb slug converted for airgun use with nothing but chrony results and 10 yard jug of water testing results done before marketing. I’m sure all the history and all the scaling said the slugs that shot like shit would be awesome….except they weren’t. That particular customer will get slugs that actually have a track record from AIRGUNS and he’ll pay less than half what he paid for the hype of the slugs that sprayed from his (and every other gun I have feedback for).

So, feel free to tell me all the numbers you’ve read and all the reasons that a .45 colt slug that was never expected to shoot further than X distance and never tested to 100 yards ought to be great and I’m full of shit… Tell me how that slug will be accurate because you bumped the bhn from 6 to 10 (because you happen to have a bunch of range lead) but you’re just a hobbiest and have no intention of running the risk of pissed off customers being pissed because you fed them a line of crap. Tell me all the wonderful things you learned on the history net while ignoring the lessons of guys who actually have customers who actually shoot things besides the air over the chrony.. Tell me all the obvious lessons learned from a casting site where the author never, ever, even concieved of shooting a high power airgun. Tell me about how we need to move in new directions because we can now shoot over 850 or 950 or 1000fps when I’ve tested slugs at over 1200 for years! Yeah, if it’s all new to you, it’s never been done before!

Again, sorry for the rant but it’s getting to be too much! pb, the rant’s not directed to you…

I’m just saying that as far as airguns go and pellet/slug design and performance…it’s not all a mystery because someone with no longterm knowledge shows up on the net. If you want to keep pretending everything is a mystery, great. You might as well start telling RC how you think an Elk ought to be tracked and shot! It’s a mystery! He might get a little pissed at the lesson, what with him having done, oh, 50 FREAKING TIMES!, but I’m sure someone has found a great website that explains it all for the expert web-head!

It’s amazing to me how folks that actually have expertise in one area that they often see novices make a hash of will turn around and ignore the expertise of others…

PB,

The gas check would add friction if you actually installed it. For airgun use it would be silly to put the gas check on. For us, you just cast, size (if required) and load. We end up with a slug that has a step base and that’s it, no added friction. The gas check design works just fine, in fact, it has a miniscule but actual advantage in making a pure base less susceptible to upset from airflow.

The base of a slug does the steering at the exit from the muzzle. Moving the delicate but critical edge forward makes tiny flaws lesss important. Just as important as the crown of the muzzle, is the base of the slug. Moving the outer edge (like a gas check design does) forward, shields that edge slightly from the last breath of air that can influence initial steering. Assuming you can cast and preserve a perfect circle as the base, the only variable left for a perfect departure is a uniform crown.

I’m hoping that nobody here thinks that a gas check design needs to have the copper base installed for airgun use, or, that velocity would be impacted because the very bottom of the slug does not cover the entire area of the bore.

Hey Cool ,
A nice light load for you to play with . Is that the little round nose with 2 lands . whats that around 300 foot pounds about 22 magnum energies, bout right for coyotes and such . 🙂
great plinker and practice round

You are having too dam much fun just testing this friggin gun! lmao
I agree with yo on the wife thing if they cannot hang I do not need one. Would lay my life on the line for mine but not give up my toys! lol
Your targets look very similar to mine felt tip markers make good aiming points! I went wild for my sight in project bought the targets that chanhe color when shot. my dad was amazed ( I always use copier or shrpies for targets never buy them! lmao) By the time elk season comes around you will have that thing dialed in and hammering away!