The Haley .457 is here.
My haley .457 is finally here i should have the 58 in bout 2 weeks my 457 is supposed to produce 500+fpe i got the scope mounted tonight and will shoot tomorrow and YES i Will get u guys some pics also
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Well,
I wrote all that tongue in cheek, but on the serious side, and this is something you and I share, and that is a love of classic style stocks and fine rifles or any fine gun for that matter.
I am getting two barrels and airtubes for that price, and the machining from what I have read is excellent if not the best.
Where can I get that classic style in this “Clingon” airgun society as you so aptly and humerously put it?
But for those that like that style and have trust in the makers or a young family and a pocketbook that goes with it they are wonderful guns that will do fine servce to their buyers.
But as for xpairguns, take the 30 caliber he makes and charges $600.00 for. No bitches, just happy customers. The guy used to make probably the best american airgun big bore prior to the xp, the Gargoyle and even tho he does not make them now, he services the ones he made.
But I have fucked with Air Force rifles enough, I have or I should say as of yesterday had 3 frames that I constantly modded, and yes that is the fun of these guns, and why a lot of us buy them, we like to mod guns.
But honestly every time I do that, which is almost weekly it seems, I am awake most of the night with throbbing pain in my hands from working on them. And it is not just airguns that this pain has driven me from, I don’t make museum quality 1880 leather goods by hand, and I do not cut 20 cords of wood a year plus make lumber with a chainsaw mill anymore.
I have my 25 Condor doing 62 FPE with Kings now, just about as fast as I can push them accurately, so I will leave it alone, my airarcher needs something to push it faster and Tagdagger is working on that, as is his excellent after the purchase policy. But I am tired of working on my airguns although I do love it while it is daylight.
I bought AF because I was starting out as a newby in the airgun thing, and they seemed to give the best bang for the buck, and I have no regrets.
I want rifles I can shoot, and not fuck with, and if I do take them apart, I don’t want to run the gamble of having poorly machined parts. I want it to look as good in the inside as the outside, or even better, like my Dads old Waltham railroad watch, better on the inside than the outside.
I like things that look as good on the outside as they are on the inside, one of the reasons I searched the world for a wife, and Jim you know what I am talking about there.
I got the two barel set, because I want cheap ammo to practice with, and I want a barn stormer to make those lead cows in the herd, hump up and do the backwards walk before they become hamburger and backstrap.
And yeah, a 300 win mag will do it better and faster, my last elk season lasted an hour, I can and will have more fun with a xp. And after 50 of the fabulous beasts laying steaming at my feet I want to deal in the thrill of the hunt rather than abundance.
And I wanted the best, which I think this is, something none of us have to rationalize to anyone, or at least we should not have to if we have mapped our lives correctly.
Jim, you and I have had enough custom guns made to not have to justify this, my last one was 5 grand, I am sure some beat that.
After I heal from this, the next gun will most likely be a Daystate Wolf of some kind or a Royale 400 or 500, not necessarily in that order.
It is just me and what I want at this point in my life.
Thanks for listening,
Roachcreek
Roach…the funny thing is that for all the hand wringing over this big bore or that this is just like your commentary regarding PCP AG safety
can anyone provide an example of one of Jack’s rifles failing?
see alot of nancy bitching about this & that & I do agree some of the pix seem pretty damning
Still, for about a $1400.00 premium over what I paid on my JH that XP damn well better not have one solitary issue
that is enough left over and above a JH to buy a second hand DAQ and still have enough left to buy a couple cases of Stoli 😆 😆 😆
LOL…if you are investing big $$$ in that XP you best look elsewhere than Richards if you want a stock to match the quality of the XP action
Richards has a history of spotier QC than JH and thats dikrect personal experience
at least on their semi inlet jobs which indeed are notorious…
have one for a QB that’s frustrating me currently
I Do like the specs on the XP, may even purchase one but I need to see a bit more real world user data, not what folks are being told by the fellow building them…just my nature
Now I’ve never been inside my rifle, who knows I may have to redo or even have a valve made…just don’t know but other than the valve and end fill I have examined the rest and see none of the issues a few others have had. Good or bad I wil be posting pix of the tear down.
again I can do quite a bit of modding for a grand and for $1600.00 I feel competant enough to design and build something that would suit my tastes a bit better than the XP
just can’t do it until I move up to the cabin and workshop
Okay, now I am really pissed ❗
I went to the xpairguns website because of all this talk, and found that in the stock options, there is no place to get a elk horn attached to my rifle.
Well fuck me 😛 , and it was actually $2000.00 most of which is represented by the I don’t shoot it anymore guns under the bed stuff Jim.
Damned that makes me mad, then I research further and see I have no option in choice of woods, I was hoping to get a good grade of drift wood and a feather dangling down. Maybe a shed snake skin glued to the stock. Or a face engraved into the stock where I put my face when I shoot so I can kiss it everytime it goes off.
And to make matters worse there was not a rusty file engraving option, and there is no quick release bolt option to fly thru my forehead when I shoot.
Anybody know if there is a I love Dan forum, I was hoping for the First united Worship of xpairguns forum, I mean shit the other builders have theirs?
Oh well I guess I am forced to have a 1000 FPE rifle with a american Walnut stock in the Classic style and a interchangeable barrel system, made by one of the best on modern CNC equipment and produced in my lifetime that I did not have to make advance payments on decades before.
Damn I am going to miss that elkhorn. 🙁
But wait, I wonder if I can send it to Crosman when I get it and have GPS inlaid in the stock? I mean fuck the $1.50 compass my fathers generation mutilated their stocks with, I will tastefully stumble into the 21 century:roll:
Okay I think I have most of the builders insulted, did I miss any, I mean except the Rual Seoul dog eaters association? 😆
Regards,
Roachcreek
something else to consider that I never mention is I really only trust in maybe 40% or less of the data folks post online as being factual
I do think on these forums I will advance that up to maybe 90% but I remain very dubious about many of the claimed feats and figures posted on the Yellow
not stating I don’t think Gary’s products are accurate just that I don’t trust some of the online propaganda & virtual kindergarten Show & Tell when it comes to chrony print outs/pix of groups
just the nature of the internet that a certain percentage of posters are full of themselves & shit
as for the Korean guns they are inexpensive and have all been around in great numbers for a long period of time
given that there is a great deal more data on them.
Going to go through a major tear down and reconfiguration of my .452 JH over the next few months
Ordered one of those Accuracy International clone stocks for the Marauder that were on the Yellow. My tube is an inch and a eighth versus the Marauder’s inch and a quarter so figuring on custom brass bedding cradles and dropping on a Marauder trigger group modded with Eniks stainless trigger & safety, replace the bolt handle, rework the valve if needed and so on
might even send the barrel out to 300 Below for cyro stress relief
as it stands this JH is every bit as accurate as any of the 3 or 4 Sam Yangs that have passed through my hands
actually the one that really impressed me was my last Dragon
kinda anemic but accurate as all get out with round balls if I did my part.
it gave back ragged maybe .80 groups most of the time sandbagged and dailed in at 50 yards with a big Nikko Nighteater
just couldn’t stand the looks of the Korean guns
Roach is dropping 1600.00 on his new toy, thats roughly a grand more than what I gave Jack for my .452 and I can do a great deal of modding for that money to make it what I want
Barnes?
you can assemble a regular armory of quality Big Bores for what one spends on just one of his boom sticks
guess its all relative
i tell you what you get what you pay for , i listed all the materials that Dan’s XP Ranger 45-58 guns have in them , you can not compare at any level a JH gun to and XP gun in quality of materials or the CNC machine fit of all the parts ! or the FPS OR FPE that the XP has
i am buying the xp ranger 45 with out the stock with 36 inch barrel for 1150 , my Richards micro stock tiger-wood laminate thumb-hole target style will cost 210 shipped
now there is no way in hell that i would spend 3/4 of that to get a gun that might look like it was machined with a hack-saw and a bad rusty file , and holes drilled by a shaking dull hand drill ! and a stock that the action might rattle in when shaked or cut and carved crooked by back yard billy !
after seeing all the pictures on the net of the JH guns close up , not just the ones on this thread either , there have been a few for sale that i saw the action up close , and WOW ! i could not believe the ruff machine marks in the action , there is just no way i would take the risk of buying a JH myself
i hope your JH is better than what i have seen for your sake ,and most of all safety . honestly if it were me i would sell it and buy and XP , before you invest all the time and labore trying to correct it, or improve it
just my 2 cents , DH
well Roach
Never took any cotton to any of the DA Smith’s other than the 4″ 29
my attitude always was that I will never be an Ed McGivern so why the hell do I even need double action?
Love the power band in the magnum but discovered a properly tuned #3 Single Action in .44 Russian was more my thing
that combination is still recognized as one of by Far the most effective off hand combinations in a Center Fire ever built
Some brag about their Vundaba Kimbers or what ever but sadly to best a New Model #3 Target is likely going to take something like a Walther in .32 wadcutter.
thinking on it, given the ballistics of the Russian round, that may be another option
a .44 based on the bore geometry of the #3 using the proven projectiles of the late 19th Century.
be good for maybe a 300 to 400 FPE rifle capable of some pretty spot on groups at 50 to 100 yards or greater so long as you ran a similar velocity I would think
I’m thinking double action S@W 625….preferably a Mountain Gun. I feel much better about having the warm-loaded double action on hand for wilderness defense, over a magnumized single action shooting super-powerful Ruger-only loads.
.44Russian……different caliber, but ballistics much like a souped-up 909S.
Butcher,
I had a friend years ago that had a 45 ACP chambered revolver, it used the half moon clips, so we got some 45 AR brass and used it. They can be loaded hot, but there are theoretical problems with them that I do not think the 45 colt shares.
One is the ability to load them hotter, the 45 LC is much better if your revolver has the strength, the other is the cylinder jump to the throat, which is usually longer in most acp chambered revolvers.
Having said that, we still souped that old gun up pretty good, accuracy was very good. But we did it with lighter bullets.
Getting away from theoretical problems to the real world, your going to run out of room in that case for the longer 255 grain bullets, and the further you go inside the more you restrict yourself to very fast powders. Very fast powders, small combution chambers and heavy bullets build pressure quickly. And that is what you would face trying to push a 255 out of the acp sized case at 1000FPS.
But I am jaded I just have a love for the 45 Colt.
But my all time favorites just have to be the 44 Russian and the 44 special. Rugers are good strong revolvers but those big old Smiths are simply elegant.
Regards,
Roachcreek
I am talking mainly about getting them to shoot well, once you do that, there is not much differnce.
But if you tried to load black like smokless, you will not hit a 4×8 sheet of plywood at 100 yards.
Without the proper loading technique, you fucked, no way around that one youngster. 😆
So much of that was forgotten and had to be relearned.
Regards,
Roachcreek
All I know about loading PB Ammo, is that there are a ton of variables that can change everything drastically when just one variable is changed to the slightest degree. Probably another reason I enjoy the simplicity of a bigbore airgun…..the much less complicated loading process/parameters.
Speaking of reloading for PB’s….I’m trying to decide what to get for a revolver I intend to handload .45 255grainers to about 1000fps for. .45Colt, or .45AutoRim? Which would be cheapest to reload for at that performance level, and which is likely to produce the best accuracy? I hear really good things about the accuracy potential of the .45AutoRim, and have seen 1000fps non-Ruger loading data with 240-255grainers.
double post
Butcher,
I am talking mainly about getting them to shoot well, once you do that, there is not much differnce.
But if you tried to load black like smokless, you will not hit a 4×8 sheet of plywood at 100 yards.
Without the proper loading technique, you fucked, no way around that one youngster. 😆
So much of that was forgotten and had to be relearned.
Regards,
Roachcreek
something else to consider that I never mention is I really only trust in maybe 40% or less of the data folks post online as being factual
I do think on these forums I will advance that up to maybe 90% but I remain very dubious about many of the claimed feats and figures posted on the Yellow
I’ve always taken that into consideration when researching any of a number of topics…..bigbore airguns are not my first research rodeo. I’ve sifted thru a ton of shit to find a few gems.
I am not so sure that small bore Pellet guns have a lot of correlation with 45 and 58 caliber bores either.
Black powder reloading has so many variables that have nothing at all in common with smokeless loading, filling the case and powder fouling are two really big things, which with air rifles mean nothing. There are not a lot of similiar factors between Black and smokeless. Also both depend on a violent hit at ignition for upset, something the air gun lacks.
I think alloy and bullet/bore matching will be very important as will projectile length.
Perhaps you meant to say that these cast slugs don’t act like jacketed rounds, rather than PB’s? ANd yeah, pellets and boolits are apples and oranges for sure.
There is no reason to forget everything known about powder-burner rounds (particularly the older cast boolit shooting Black Powder revolver cartridges) such as the old .32’s, and .45Colt, considering the more powerful bigbore airguns are shooting the same cast lead slugs at the same velocities (identical external ballistics).
Sure the internal ballistics of the rifles are different, but once that same slug leaves the barrel and obtains a certain speed and stability, it’s all the same to the target is it not? That’s the part I look at….the EXTERNAL ballistics.
The Linebaugh penetration tests list some .38, and .45 ballistics that are identical to airguns (as does the infamous “Strasbourg Goat Tests”), and there are several hunting reports from handloaders that load their cartridges to higher-end airgun velocities. A favorite .45Colt field load of Linebaughs is a 260grain Keith@around 900fps that his wife and kids have used to take a whole bunch of deer and antelope.
A 260grain@900fps slug shot from a .45 airgun will do the same thing a 260grain slug shot from a .45Colt has done for so long. Elmer Keith’s .44Magnum alloy was only a whopping BHN14……not exactly on the harder side of the alloy spectrum where PB’s are concerned. BHN14 alloy isn’t reported to be a problem for at least a couple makes of the higher-powered bigbores.
Butcher,
45 2.1 and longer chamberings use barrels that are 1-22, 1-20, 1-16, the 22 is what Douglas used for years, the 20 was a good comprised between light and heavy bullets and the 16 is for the very long heavy slugs and long ranges.
I have used Douglas, Shilo and Krieger, the Kreiger a 1-16 was phenomenal, but I never shot anything lighter than 530 grains in it and always Blackpowder.
The first thing I would think a person needs to realize about these big cast bullets, is like Riverside said they deo not act like PB’s, and I say forget everything you know about smokeless loading and bullets.
I am not so sure that small bore Pellet guns have a lot of correlation with 45 and 58 caliber bores either.
Black powder reloading has so many variables that have nothing at all in common with smokeless loading, filling the case and powder fouling are two really big things, which with air rifles mean nothing. There are not a lot of similiar factors between Black and smokeless. Also both depend on a violent hit at ignition for upset, something the air gun lacks.
I think alloy and bullet/bore matching will be very important as will projectile length.
But until I get the rifle and start putting lead down the bore I will not know. And really to me that is where all the fun is.
RJ seems to have a great start at this, and has played with these larger bores as have you.
But shit howdy, RJ shoots sinkers and they work.
How do you top that?
Regards,
Roachcreek
Butcher:
something else to consider that I never mention is I really only trust in maybe 40% or less of the data folks post online as being factual
I do think on these forums I will advance that up to maybe 90% but I remain very dubious about many of the claimed feats and figures posted on the Yellow
not stating I don’t think Gary’s products are accurate just that I don’t trust some of the online propaganda & virtual kindergarten Show & Tell when it comes to chrony print outs/pix of groups
just the nature of the internet that a certain percentage of posters are full of themselves & shit
as for the Korean guns they are inexpensive and have all been around in great numbers for a long period of time
given that there is a great deal more data on them.
Going to go through a major tear down and reconfiguration of my .452 JH over the next few months
Ordered one of those Accuracy International clone stocks for the Marauder that were on the Yellow. My tube is an inch and a eighth versus the Marauder’s inch and a quarter so figuring on custom brass bedding cradles and dropping on a Marauder trigger group modded with Eniks stainless trigger & safety, replace the bolt handle, rework the valve if needed and so on
might even send the barrel out to 300 Below for cyro stress relief
as it stands this JH is every bit as accurate as any of the 3 or 4 Sam Yangs that have passed through my hands
actually the one that really impressed me was my last Dragon
kinda anemic but accurate as all get out with round balls if I did my part.
it gave back ragged maybe .80 groups most of the time sandbagged and dailed in at 50 yards with a big Nikko Nighteater
just couldn’t stand the looks of the Korean guns
Roach is dropping 1600.00 on his new toy, thats roughly a grand more than what I gave Jack for my .452 and I can do a great deal of modding for that money to make it what I want
Barnes?
you can assemble a regular armory of quality Big Bores for what one spends on just one of his boom sticks
guess its all relative
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I completely understand Roach
my thing is that I usually end up doing extensive mods to the majority of things I purchase
Cars, trucks, sleds, guns…even a good share of my electronics because as issued no matter how great the quality it’s still not what meets my tastes.
Take this Haley…
it’s satisfactory, a solid 300 FPE gun that has served me well
that said, I do NOT like the simple trigger or the lack of a safety
hence the Marauder trigger group which itself is heavily upgraded
I could live with the stock but why when for $275 I now have that slick fully adjustable AI clone?
Don’t care for the front band either, doesn’t allow the barrel to float and it is the one part of the rifle that exhibits grind marks under the nice blue
have a buddy making me a new one that will get a dovetail base so I can install a Redfield Target globe
Breech will be fitted up with with a steel 1913 rail and barrel with a QD moderator
Bolt handle is getting replaced with a high end unit and will likely have a different hammer knob spun out as well
The main advantage I see in the XP is the detachable pressure flasks
frankly I really don’t see a quick change barrel set up as advantagous on a Big Bore once you start getting into major power outputs unless it is using interuppted threads where you unlatch, give the barrel a half turn and pull it free of the breech and thats purely to make the package easier to case up
as far as caliber change unless the XP is using some wholely new bolt system you will still need to change out bolts to change from .45 to .58 and remove or install the proper sized projectile tray
better to have a 2nd rifle in the second caliber me thinks