WARNING: Do You Own A FrankEdstein EdGun?
To the airgun community:
I believe this is a necessary post here because of the poor business ethics that Dr. FrankEdstein poses on the airgun community. Your investment is at risk here. Notice I said ‘IS’ at risk because it certainly is.
Here’s my take on the situation. I believe and with good cause that Ed is after only one thing and that is your money. He doesn’t stand behind his product but most of the ass-kissers on here think that he does. How quickly we forget about the fiasco we had regarding the damaged guns being delivered and no resolution in sight for that issue. It took this forum to post a ‘sticky’ and many months before the resolution was in place. In my books, that is not customer service.
Here is the thread you all seem to have forgotten:
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24031
Moving right along here, there are many of us who own FrankEdsteins! What is a FranEdstein? It is a cobbled together Edgun using left over parts from other models with new parts to create the illusion of a new model. Were we ever notified of this incarnation? No, none of us were but Ed sold them to us while he moved out old inventory which he could no longer sell. This is fact gentlemen. They were having difficulty selling singe shot Edguns because the multi-shot was being released and they wanted the same money for the single shot as they did for the multi shot. Greed!
So what is a FrankEdstein?
There was an over abundance of R3’s in stock which are single shot guns. What they did was take the gun assembly and remove the single shot capability and then added a new multi-shot upgrade to the single shot gun and put this into a new R3M wood stock. The single shot gun assembly is shown in photo #1 below without the cut-out for the magazines.
The new genuine multi-shot R3M is shown in photo #2 which clearly shows the cut-outs for the magazines.
Now, ask yourself this question: if you want a multi-shot, which model do you want? Obviously model #2 because it has the space for the magazines and was manufactured for this purpose. Would you want a multi-shot with the single shot frame and no place to put the magazines? Of course not, especially since there is a model that has the cut-outs.
Well gentlemen, we all invested $2k in these FrankEdsteins and which model do you think will hold resale value and be more in demand? Certainly not the Model #1.
Were we told about this? Were we offered the opportunity to make a choice? Was there even a slight discount for the Model #1 because it was a FrankEdstein? The answers are No, No and No!
I’m sure some of the ass-kissers own FrankEdsteins and they’re probably thrilled and proud to be able to own the FrankEdstein.
To illustrate Dr. FrankEdstein’s contempt and arrogance to the airgun community we post some of his comments below for your reading pleasure:
Mr. Ed stated, that he has“the right to change everything in the gun without noticing the clients”! And then he adds more BS as long as “the changes are pointed to improve the gun”!
He really means as long as the changes are pointed to improve Ed’s financial wealth.
Mr. Ed is a disgrace not to mention highly unethical and dishonest. Let me explain…
Mr. Ed does have the right to change the gun and he does have the right to run his business his way but he does not have the right to take advantage of his clients nor does he have the right to be sneaky as he is. Honest, respectful and ethical businessmen would notify the client that a new model is also available and offer the client the choice. Offering the client, the choice is not in Mr. Ed’s best interest because he needed to move out single shot assemblies! And, he see’s nothing wrong with clients being frustrated; read on and you’ll see my point.
He then has the audacity to state, “can you imagine how the last buyers of single shot Matadors were frustrated when they saw in a couple of weeks that someone got multi shot Matador for the same price”.
And, he sees nothing wrong with that and has the audacity to publish it.
He doesn’t care as long as whatever you do puts money in his pocket and as long as it is best for Ed.
Friends: once you fork over the hard cold cash, you are on your own. To this, Dr. FranEdstein counters with I will refund you if the gun is in ‘new condition’. No one has a new gun 10 minutes after they open the box. In my case, I put a rail on the stock for a bipod and Dr. FrankEdsteing knows that we all do this. Dr. FrankEdstein knows this and as such his ‘refund’ is hollow. He did offer a refund for the gun assembly minus the stock which is unacceptable because I have no use for the stock. He sold me a FrankEdstein gun with cocking and indexing issues. It is a bastard gun. I own 4 Edgun’s. All previous models were fine so I expected this one to function properly as well. It did not and as such the manufacturer has the responsibility to refund in full as no other guns are available. If you get a good gun, great but I’m the living proof that if there is an issue, you are on your own.
FrankEdstein guns anyone?
WE’LL CALL THIS MODEL #1
WE’LL CALL THIS ONE MODEL #2
All Replies
May I add something that may put things a little in perspective when it comes to airguns and issues…?
Daystate: I have six DS guns. The DS AirRanger 80 was marketed as a 80 ft/lbs gun with great hunting potential and accuracy. I was stupid enough to get one at a very high price. Nobody ever told me that gun had a shotstring from hell, and that the 80 ft/lbs could only be achieved for a few shots within a string. Also nobody told me that at 80 ft/lbs the accuracy is such that you’ll be lucky to hit a barndoor at 50 yds. It proved impossible to zero properly as pellets were all over the place…. A well functioning gun ???? Not in my book. Did I get a refund ? No need to answer…. 😉
In 2009 I bought the famous electronic AirWolf MVT with a built in Chronograph and lots of other goodies. By the time I received it, DS had stopped producing/offering them because of flaws with the built in Chrono. Was I told up front ???? Did I get a refund ??? Guess !!! That it had serious clipping problems from the factory is a part of the story……
My DS Huntsman has been working beautifully for a while. But the all of a sudden the so called “Harper-valve” or system decided to take a break. DS was informed, but what did I get ? Not even a reply………..
BSA R10 was released a few years back. The issues related to that gun have been well documented on the BSA forum. It took a while before they launched MKII, – but a lot of unhappy customers were left behind in the dark…..
I can go on and on and on………
What we all have known is that the R3s have been built according to a philosophy as stated by ED above. Simplicity and sturdiness. We have all seen ED’s repeated statements that his guns would need a break-in period before it would perform at it’s best. He never claimed they were perfect. I guess MG should know that better than most having 4 Edguns already. He still bought it. Why ???
Yes, – one has the right to expect a fully functional gun at 2K. Unfortunately that does not always happen. Yes, – one should have rights under guarantee and spareparts available. However it has been a well known fact that this is not the case with EDguns, – at least not yet. We/you still buy them. Why ???
Food for thought ???
Again I can go on and on, – but will refrain from doing so…..
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Zocoloco… very gentlemanly words up there, thank you sir. But, in this hobby, there are those whose 2K USD are all that they have, and they expect to have something that is worth their money. Yes, I know too that there are those who are very fortunate to have a lot of 2K USD to absorb the pain, frustration and disappointment. It is just a fact of life, isn’t it?
I for one believe that for an airgun to cost that much, it should be trouble free. Perhaps, I am wrong. Maybe I am wrong. But in my heart, I feel I am right. But who am I to demand a worry-free, trouble-free airgun for two thousand US dollars? I am beginning to accept that there is no such thing!
Sometimes I wish I had no hobby, other than watching sunsets… because it is free, trouble-free…. and nothing to worry about, except an occasional drizzle.
I’ve owned many many top end airguns, they include:
3 x air arms pro targets
2 x air arms EV2’s (1 mk2, 1 custom)
1 x daystate mk3
1 x daystate mk4
1 x steyr lg100
1 x steyr lg110
1 x steyr lg110hp
1 x anschutz 2002
3 x air arms s400
2 x air arms tx200
1 x air arms tx200sr
1 x air arms s200
1 x theoben vanquish
1 x theoben MFR
1 x ripley AR5s
1 x Edgun Matador R3
and probably many others – the guns that work without problems are typically the likes of the s400, the theobens, you know.. The mid level stuff.
All the top end guns above had their quirks, they had fussy barrels, regulator problems, temperature shift, key parts worked loose (ev2 butt hook was bad for this…)
My edgun even had a sheared spring guide (my fault) and I think I had a slow leak at one point (it would lose 50bar over a week but its fixed itself)
there are no perfect guns, all guns have their issues… the ones that work perfectly are very simple guns like the s400 like I said.
You get the same with top end cars, go ask someone who has an italian super car how often they break down and have issues…
It’s just part of the sport
May I add something that may put things a little in perspective when it comes to airguns and issues…?
Daystate: I have six DS guns. The DS AirRanger 80 was marketed as a 80 ft/lbs gun with great hunting potential and accuracy. I was stupid enough to get one at a very high price. Nobody ever told me that gun had a shotstring from hell, and that the 80 ft/lbs could only be achieved for a few shots within a string. Also nobody told me that at 80 ft/lbs the accuracy is such that you’ll be lucky to hit a barndoor at 50 yds. It proved impossible to zero properly as pellets were all over the place…. A well functioning gun ???? Not in my book. Did I get a refund ? No need to answer…. 😉
In 2009 I bought the famous electronic AirWolf MVT with a built in Chronograph and lots of other goodies. By the time I received it, DS had stopped producing/offering them because of flaws with the built in Chrono. Was I told up front ???? Did I get a refund ??? Guess !!! That it had serious clipping problems from the factory is a part of the story……
My DS Huntsman has been working beautifully for a while. But the all of a sudden the so called “Harper-valve” or system decided to take a break. DS was informed, but what did I get ? Not even a reply………..
BSA R10 was released a few years back. The issues related to that gun have been well documented on the BSA forum. It took a while before they launched MKII, – but a lot of unhappy customers were left behind in the dark…..
I can go on and on and on………
What we all have known is that the R3s have been built according to a philosophy as stated by ED above. Simplicity and sturdiness. We have all seen ED’s repeated statements that his guns would need a break-in period before it would perform at it’s best. He never claimed they were perfect. I guess MG should know that better than most having 4 Edguns already. He still bought it. Why ???
Yes, – one has the right to expect a fully functional gun at 2K. Unfortunately that does not always happen. Yes, – one should have rights under guarantee and spareparts available. However it has been a well known fact that this is not the case with EDguns, – at least not yet. We/you still buy them. Why ???
Food for thought ???
Again I can go on and on, – but will refrain from doing so…..
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Zocoloco… very gentlemanly words up there, thank you sir. But, in this hobby, there are those whose 2K USD are all that they have, and they expect to have something that is worth their money. Yes, I know too that there are those who are very fortunate to have a lot of 2K USD to absorb the pain, frustration and disappointment. It is just a fact of life, isn’t it?
I for one believe that for an airgun to cost that much, it should be trouble free. Perhaps, I am wrong. Maybe I am wrong. But in my heart, I feel I am right. But who am I to demand a worry-free, trouble-free airgun for two thousand US dollars? I am beginning to accept that there is no such thing!
Sometimes I wish I had no hobby, other than watching sunsets… because it is free, trouble-free…. and nothing to worry about, except an occasional drizzle.
Ed while you are here….
I have a question, I would like a ‘new’ serial number for my Matador R3 (.177 if it makes a difference…)
I really really want my gun to have the serial number “007”
Is this possible? Of course ill pay for the new breech or whatever is needed.
I told before MG has a great experience with ass in different ways, otherwise why he intends to it so clearly 🙂 fobias or atractions? No doubt, being a specialist in ass he would defenetly explain you the difference 🙂
Trygve, that is what I was tallking about, the problem is me, being the part of the forum, as “terrorist customer” knows who to blame exactly. If they blame a big company and get ignored by it, they consider it as not normal, but undestandable (there are thousand of us, they just cannot take care of each of us), in my case the phsycology work the different way 🙂
he had to spend $8k to realise how “unethical” Ed is…
Calls people who support him an ass licker… yet he gave ed enough money to buy a decent car…
The others work fine and that not the issue. And furthermore, I never, ever called anyone an ass licker so don’t put words in my mouth. 😯
Sorry, my mistake… you actually said ass kissers. If you could explain how they are different I will appreciate it.
Friends and foes !!! 😀
May I add something that may put things a little in perspective when it comes to airguns and issues…?
Daystate: I have six DS guns. The DS AirRanger 80 was marketed as a 80 ft/lbs gun with great hunting potential and accuracy. I was stupid enough to get one at a very high price. Nobody ever told me that gun had a shotstring from hell, and that the 80 ft/lbs could only be achieved for a few shots within a string. Also nobody told me that at 80 ft/lbs the accuracy is such that you’ll be lucky to hit a barndoor at 50 yds. It proved impossible to zero properly as pellets were all over the place…. A well functioning gun ???? Not in my book. Did I get a refund ? No need to answer…. 😉
In 2009 I bought the famous electronic AirWolf MVT with a built in Chronograph and lots of other goodies. By the time I received it, DS had stopped producing/offering them because of flaws with the built in Chrono. Was I told up front ???? Did I get a refund ??? Guess !!! That it had serious clipping problems from the factory is a part of the story……
My DS Huntsman has been working beautifully for a while. But the all of a sudden the so called “Harper-valve” or system decided to take a break. DS was informed, but what did I get ? Not even a reply………..
BSA R10 was released a few years back. The issues related to that gun have been well documented on the BSA forum. It took a while before they launched MKII, – but a lot of unhappy customers were left behind in the dark…..
I can go on and on and on………
What we all have known is that the R3s have been built according to a philosophy as stated by ED above. Simplicity and sturdiness. We have all seen ED’s repeated statements that his guns would need a break-in period before it would perform at it’s best. He never claimed they were perfect. I guess MG should know that better than most having 4 Edguns already. He still bought it. Why ???
Yes, – one has the right to expect a fully functional gun at 2K. Unfortunately that does not always happen. Yes, – one should have rights under guarantee and spareparts available. However it has been a well known fact that this is not the case with EDguns, – at least not yet. We/you still buy them. Why ???
Food for thought ???
Again I can go on and on, – but will refrain from doing so…..
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Customers out of Russia got R3M after it was tested in Russia for more then 1 000 guns, based on that I found out it was working properly. I always do it this way as when some problems appears with the new model it is much easier for me to fix it here, in Russia, then to make the fix the guns which are out of Russia, taking into consideraton that I have a lot of services in different town of Russia. As for .25 it was redesigned based on the experience I got with R3M in .22 caliber, so you can call it “second generation of R3M” 🙂
As for Humminbird by Kalibr, they sold some in Russia, but as I heard the problems with its working were so huge that they stopped making them and selling before to make a general improvements. The situaton with R3M is not like it was with their gun. Yes, one can find minor issues, at at all the guns, which are either can be fixed by the owner himself (I still stay on the position that the owner of the gun should be able to fix the small issus, like changing O-rings, or something like that, that is why I do my best to design my guns as simple as possible to let people chance to make the service themselves) or repaired by the dealer. So, to compare humminbird and R3M is not correct due to the different level of issues.
As for the waiting — it is very simple, if you waint, it means the only one thing — you want to get it, otherwise you would buy the other gun from other manufactur. So, I cannot accept you blame me for waiting 🙂
Once there was an accident with Matador reservoir. But it was very strange, a customer, disassembled the gun completly, then put frond and back plugs into the tube. The first plug was fixed with the three screws as it should be, but by some reason which he couldn’t explain he fixed the back plug only with ONE screw instead of three. He put it to the metal box, connected to the tank and began to fill it, at the pressure about 150 bar it exploded, the plug shot out as a bullet and destroed the metal box. When I asked him WHY!? He couldn’t not explain. There was another accident, one customer decided to change the O-rings in the reservoir, he drop down the pressure to 30 bar no to zero and began to disassemble the front plug. Of course it shot like a granade launcher, destoyed the kitchen table and almost killed his wife, which was just 0.5 meters aside of the trajectory of flying the plug. When I asked him “Are you stupid to diasssemble the gun when it is under pressurre!?” He is answered “What the problem it was just 30 bars inside!?” So, all the problem with high pressure are in most cased arrised from the wrong users.
Thus you force me into stay at place not making any updates just to keep the clients calm? 🙂 If I was following that strategy I still would sell this gun:
Would you or me be happy with that?
Ed we already wait MONTHS!!!….for a single rifle…nobody said to push the r3m out so quick…wait till everything was working flawlessly just like the r3 does….why hasn’t kalibrgun push out the hummingbird yet???? People are begging for this gun but yet it’s not out yet because Kalibrgun is making sure it’s working the way it should and not push it out and have problems….you were eager to get these guns out to people to make money instead of making sure that the guns actually work properly…. It’s like I said we Already wait long enough for an edgun who cares if we wait longer for something that can work properly… That’s just my opinion
Hi ED,
thank you for your reassuring reply about your air cylinders 😀 .
Since a friend of mine has had a major accident with an air cylinder, I’m somehow “worried” about safety and try to follow at the letter all the safety recommendations and precautions.
JUST TO MAKE CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING, THE ACCIDENT THAT HAPPENED TO THAT FRIEND OF MINE HAPPENED IN PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES AND THERE WASN’T ANY RELATION WITH EDGUNS.
Just to be sure the massage arrived properly:
JUST TO MAKE CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING, THE ACCIDENT THAT HAPPENED TO THAT FRIEND OF MINE HAPPENED IN PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES AND THERE WASN’T ANY RELATION WITH EDGUNS.
Thank you again and ATB 😀
How do u feel about the Chinese copy of your gun? …. It’s coming!!
I feel nothing about it as I know for sure, it will be cheaper them my guns with worse quality, or it will cost the same money with the same quality, as there is no miracles in this world, the technologies, materials and good working force cost almost the same all over the world.
No problem I would do it so, even still I am sure the gun is working as it should do (whatever MG thinks about it) but not in this case, as MG behaive himself the way I have no intention to make a step forward, whatever it cost me.
Almost every pcp manufacturer puts a date/year on the air cylinder and depending on that date there is an expiration date of the cylinder, after that date it shouldn’t be filled anymore without being first inspected or replaced (with supporting documentation). I suspect there is a specific legislation concerning safety on this varying from country to country.
What is the expiration date of your cylinders (how long are they valid) and will you offer or do you already offer an ispection or replacement service of the cylinders?
It could easily be that some shooting clubs don’t allow to shot pcps with expired cylinders and it would be really sad to see that our beloved weapons became just “decorative weapons”, you know that story about “broken dreams” 😀 .
Thanks in advance for your help and ATB
According to the Russian technical regulation of high pressure reservoirs, the reservoir with volome less then 1 liter is not consideres as high pressure reservoir and thus is not needed to pass through test, inspections etc. Russian technical regulation is quite serious about high pressure reservoirs and if it said — les then 1 liter is shoudn’t be instected it means that they consider it able to live for ever 🙂 But seriously I tested my reservoirs (and I continue to do it with every new delivery of the tubes) trying to destroy it the overpressure, my tools allowes me to press it with the water up to 650 bar, I measure it every 50 bar and the diameters of the reservoir increase at 0.05 mm from 0 bar to 650 bar, which is far away of critical point. I never could destroy the reservoir with the test. According to the calculation the destruction will begin only after the pressure will reach 1’000 bar. I use Russian duralimin D16T, which is considered here as a strategical material and not allowed to be exported out of Russia as material. I tried to find the analog in the West but failed, so all the reservoirs are still made in Russia, even for those guns which are made in Estonia. I have tools for testing regulators, it is the same tube as I use for reservoirs but much shorter, there are five of them, so all the regulators I install in the reservoir are tested with those tubes. Thousands and thousands cycles of fill pressure/emty pressure are made to those tubes, they stil work without any problems and damages. So I estimate that you will get tired of using my guns much earlier before something wrong can happen with the tube 🙂
Did I understand you right with my pour Englsih that you consider that Matador is out of standard without a rail under it?! Wow, I didn’t know it was you who set the standards of how the guns should be produced or designed! 🙂
It has been called “damaged” and usually that kind of thing increases the value not decrease it.
You would, someone not, tests differ, I sell the guns without a rail, selling them with it I am risking to run into another MG who would claim “I offered the gun thinking it wil not have the rail, why did I get it with the rail?!” 🙂
Enough already! :1: 20 paces :1:
LOL 😀
Put me on the list! 
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Hi Trygve/Zocoloco,
you own 6 DS airguns?
You shouln’t be allowed to post anymore on this forum because if it’s true that “the more you learn the less you know” then you must have learnt soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ATB 😀