Ranger 45
Well I have a tracking number for the Ranger 45 that was assembled, test fired, chronyed, and shipped today.
28 inch barrel, standard stock and black crerakote finish, $1230 dollars including shipping.
To early to get the arrival date, it is not in the system yet.
Chrony numbers were:
Round ball. low setting 3000 PSI……1018 FPS
225………. low setting 3000 PSI……..877 FPS
405 shot 1 hi setting 4500 PSI………804 FPS
340 shot 2 hi setting 4500 PSI………843 FPS
These numbers will improve by 30 to 50 FPS as the rifle breaks in.
Regards,
Roachcreek
All Replies
PowderBurner,
I think Dan would be the guy to ask that one to, but when I watched the video that was the first thing that came to mind.
I seem to be using around 700 PSI per shot, can you imagine that with a 30 cal? Just remember when you go down you seem to lose efficiency, (note moderators, I do not mean that in a gay way.)
That casting guide Marvin is preaching to us to read, things like using sawdust for flux? That one impressed me, I use it for kindling because the first split I do on my firewood is with the saw to relieve the pressure on the round so a maul will work better, so I have a lot 30 gallon black plastic bags of flux around here.
Another thing was the taperd barrel information, most people on the airgun forums think we need to go to non choked barrels to get powder burner type bullet to shoot in air guns, ain’t so it seems.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Thatws cool RC , and yes i saved that link in my bullet casting favorites also. Thanks melloroadman.
Now after reading your post on how easy that rifle is to adapt and modify, what about a hot rod .25 or hot rod .30 caliber using that frame and tanks.????
Well guys, here it is the bad, the ugly and the good, yeah I know that is not the order we are accustomed to hearing those three words, but this is how it worked out on this story.
First, as I have stated I miked my 385 grain hp’s, they were all different sizes, would not have mattered what the bore size was, for there were 448, 450, 451 and 452, and there are imperfections that I would not have taken to a match, and believe me I have taken a shit load of my own cast bullets to matches, and I have won some State titles with them, including 1000 yard buffale SASS event and Blackpowder cartridge division of Sass, I would not take these to a match or on a hunt..
I have heard or this problem before from several others who are well informed, it looks like I purchased expensive alloy in the form of tiny bullet shaped ingots. I am glad I have my own mold coming.
But that is not the end of the story.
I cleaned that barrel, just like you mentioned Jerry, it worked well with all my Air Force barrels and figuring Gaylord was right again, and having a heavy leading deposit to remove, I purchased a fine pistol bronze brush, a coated, guided, 30 to 45 caliber rod and some patches, I could not find a jag in my little Bimart store so improvised by putting patches over the end of the patch holder while it had three or four in it.
I also bught a journal at Butchers insistance.
I did not clean the barrel before shooting when I got it, I was in a hurry, I cleaned it lightly with a few dry patches and a 22 rod the first night after 15 to 20 shots, it looked sort of funny, but I was using a dim light so I dismissed it.
I took 100 full swipes, out each end, after covering the port the best I could, making sure I used the guide, with the brush laden with JB non embeded bore cleaning compound, that took most of it out, but shining a light in the muzzle I could still see some lead streaks, having found in life that lead attracts lead I went after it some more until I could see no leading by shining a light on the side of the bore.
Then I put a white card in the loading port and shined my light on it while looking down the muzzle with “me one good eye.”
What I saw was a manufacturing mishap, about 10 to 12 inches down, the bore was wavey in the grooves, there was a cross cut mill mark or two, cut from one land to another in the same area, those of you who have played with 19 century military rifles such as the springfield trapdoor, will remember seeing bores that had eroded and been shined up and the shiny wavy appearance. Well that is what I saw.
To make sure it was not polished lead deposits, I went after it with just patches, blew on it to frost the lead if it was there, and it was not, it seems to be the bore.
I have bought a couple thousand dollars worth of Douglas barrels and one Kreiger, so I have that limited dangerous knowledge of barrels and I have polished eroded black powder barrels with various methods and degrees of sucess, I would rather not have to polish a new barrel.
So I drafted a email to Dan Mcvey and it was pretty much as described here, and I told Dan I really loved the gun, and I knew he did not make the barrels, but it appeared an incident had happened of some sort while manufacturing this one, I asked that a new barrel be sent to me and I would put it in. I pushed the send button and went to bed.
At 7:30 am, I turned my computer back on and had an email from Dan Mcvey, he wrote that he had a unfinished 28 inch barrel and would get it coated and sent out in a couple of days and apologised for my inconvience, I thanked him and thought that was that.
He did not ask me to polish it, he did not question my expertise or make excuses, he just said he would send one out and apologised, I thought it does not get better than that.
Then I got another email from him a couple hours later, he said he did actually in fact have a fininshed barrel on hand and would mail it out USPS and send me a tracking number, attached to the email was a video on assembly of the Ranger 45.
Remember the Ranger is supposed to be designed by Dan Mcvey to be an interchangeable barrel and tube system, with perhaps even a 20 guage shotgun in the works. So I watched the short video once, could not believe my eyes, so I watched it again.
It is astounding how quickley and easily this rifle comes together with three metric allen keys used on only four screws, it makes our Condors look like a rubics cube to a one armed man. Seriously this rifle is far more simple to change out barrels and tubes, take the hammer and trigger out, than it is to simply change a barrel on the Condor.
So as I started this post with the bad, the ugly and the good, a recap.
The bad, the leading and the bullet dimensions,
The ugly, realizing you have a bad barrel on a three day old rifle,
The good, finding out that the great servcie is easier than you expected, then finding out it is faster than you expected and finding out you have a superbly designed rifle.
I would rather not have had a bad barrel, but I am impressed by Dan’s service, I am impressed by the design of the rifle. For 30 shots or so until the imperfections grabbed lead and built an empire of it in my barrel, I was impressed by the accuracy, I know I will have that accuracy, and the power back again.
Now another note, Marvin, Mellowroadman, sent me a website to a book on bullet casting, I have cast for 35 years, I have read volumes about it, I learned new things and I am not done with the book yet, it is a mandatory read, thanks Marvin.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Jerry and any one else that has ran bigger bore air, has any one ran lubbed bullets or mostly unlubed.
And if lube is not the situation i think your right jerry about the bore conditon and the sizeing, regardless of alloy used.
Doesent surprize me about ledding with a new bore at all. just needs some slicking up.
Hell RC try to find a patch material that is just right and cover it with bore butter and give er a try, 😀
RC where is the lead in the bore?
I think after cleaning that bore the first thing i would do is try and ware the bore out with a tight patched jag with an abrasive compound. J b bore paste, flits, or jewellers rouge mixed in with one of the two at first.
that bronze wool idea is a great one , have never though of that.
i have always used this on my rifles with cast bullets. along with Hoppes and a good brush.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=591584&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Shooting%20-%20Gun%20Cleaning-_-PriceCompListing-_-591584
And this for my handguns
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21587/Product/LEWIS_LEAD_REMOVER
You might take a cloth or small tim of lyman ALox and just rub your finger over it and coat the bullets bearing surface as you are loading and see what happens also.
Keep us posted we can all learn from this for sure. 🙂
If the barrel is heavily leaded after a few shots, I suspect something other than lead alloy is to blame.
Pardon me if I state the obvious but first, clean the barrel then slug it to determine the true dimensions. It would not be a first if this barrel differed from the stated size.
With a clean barrel, shine that light again and look for finish imperfections. Again, it would not be a first for a non-custom reamed and polished barrel to have minor flaws. I suspect adice regarding JB Bore Paste and polishing may have already been sent…just my guess.
If not, polish the barrel.
Slug the barrel again. This is not likely to show a size delta but it will reveal if there is any significant constriction in the bore that shouldn’t be there.
Regardless of recent protestations: 1100fps is not new ground for airguns and is not a direct cause of leading. Just the weekend before last I was firing shots from a .32 at over 1200fps with soft lead and had no leading problems at all. In fact, the biggest issue I had was my amazement at the accuracy of these projectiles at a little above sonic speed.
There are a bunch of factors that will determine accuracy and power potential of a projectile from an airgun. BHN is one of these but hardly the dominant factor in my experience.
Slug interaction with the lede cut and groove diameter has always been a bigger factor for me than a couple bnh numbers. But that’s just me. Out.
I seem to recall some discussions on casting forums about the BHN of one of Oregon Trails’ lines of boolit. The posters had various makes of hardness tester, and all concluded that the slugs were much softer than advertised. I want to say BHN16 instead of BHN22 but I’m not sure.
I just did a quick search….read the seventh post from the bottom. I think this is what lead the posters to test the slugs to confirm the findings of the article. I was close, so my memory ain’t so bad I guess lol.
good find butcher , that was a good read , alot of tech info being passed around on that one .
these laser cast OT bullets should work good , the testing of the sizeing that one of those guys did shows their laser cast OT bullets are sized very VERY good , glad i bought this chunk of those now .
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
nice site Marvin , that one covers a lot , right size bullet-for the size of the barrel , right hardness , lubed correctly , = no skidding in the barrel = no leading up of the barrel , we don’t have the problems with what powder we are burning so that part is out of the equation .
RC I know what I have gone through in the past . I also know you have a lot of experience in casting and shooting . The answer to your questions are here in this link if you take the time to study it and understand that what happens with the heat of their gas is not the cause of your problem you will get the results you are after . IMO you have two issues that are causing your problem . It will not take you more that 2 hours of your time to read all of this link .And you will have more insight than you ever had before . Good luck Marvin
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
ok, sent you an email
I did not get your pmg, and i sent you one back, perhaps butcher can give you my email address.
Now come SUNDAY afternoon-evening, i expect to see a NEW and complete write up on your new toy, complete with video and pictures of EVERYTHING….lol
Looking Forward
T ….you better pack your gun/video gear up catch a flight to Oregon , and help the guy out ! 😆
i like the way you do your gun vids ! 🙂
a couple of weeks or less i will give it a go with a 36inch ranger and hopefully get some good stuff on video , i have some 140 rb and 250 g round nose flat point , i need to get some 500+grain stuff ,
i might just have to bite the mrhollowpoint bullet and get some 540 grain stuff from him ,{ i don’t know who else makes 452 in 500+ g ?} and see just what kind of hell /fpe i can raise ! with this air cannon ! 😉 BOOM !
Here’s 460grains, and un-sized they are nominally .452
http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/myweb2/images/whiterifles/white_bullets.htm
RC, sent you a PM. Please read it.
I use oregon trail bullets exclusively in my 10mm and 40 caliber glocks as well as my 45 ACP. With no accuracy issues or leading issues. Been shooting and reloading those bullet for about 10 years now and i love em.
That leading issues should not be happening this soon…….HUMMMM?? i’ll keep my thoughts to myself
I seem to recall some discussions on casting forums about the BHN of one of Oregon Trails’ lines of boolit. The posters had various makes of hardness tester, and all concluded that the slugs were much softer than advertised. I want to say BHN16 instead of BHN22 but I’m not sure.
I just did a quick search….read the seventh post from the bottom. I think this is what lead the posters to test the slugs to confirm the findings of the article. I was close, so my memory ain’t so bad I guess lol.
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Marvin,
At the danger of hijacking my own thread.
The author mentions Carbla wax and moly, but it seems about ten years ago, I had a set up where I used a tub vibrator and carbola wax and steel ball bearings and moly powder to coat my rimfire jacketed 22 bullets. If I remember correctly it was a two stage process and I had two different bowls for the vibrator.
I tried it on cast bullets but I do not remember the outcome but do remember it being messy as hell.
I think Midway sold the wax and moly.
And yes undersized cast bullets do react differnetly to Air guns due to the lack of cutting gasses but still I don’t think it does a good thing to variables like uniform velocity.
Regards,
Roachcreek