Re: Matador Reg kit to get .25 34gr JSBs up to speed
The EDgun regulator is one of the best in the world. It is straightforward and efficient. The regulator is capable of almost 1 FPS extreme spread. Wingman did an excellent video where he showed that variation is caused by external factors, not the regulator. So the Huma advantage comes from its low profile, this gives more volume in the plenum. I would put it on par with the Edgun regulator regarding efficiency
In the standard, the speed I can achieve realistically is 790 to 810 with the Huma and 34s. The long will hit about 830 max. I don’t like the current set up, and I would like to run the regulator at 120 and get speeds of 880 in the long with 34s. I have some ideas how to do it, and Wingman is going to help.
So be patient I am working on a solution to get more speed and not redline the capability of the Matador
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DT
Hammer spring is new and the hammer weight is securely attached.
I switched out my 3.31mm valve stem for a 3.5mm today but no increase in speed. Maxing out at 870fps with the 34gr mk2 pellets on 130bar reg setting. I must be missing something… On a side note, I think I’m addicted to tinkering with this gun.
I think that the addition of .19mm is not enough to make a difference, especially with a new hammer spring…I speculate that your hammer is still contacting the rod guide, with only .0075″ increase in valve rod projection. If this is indeed the issue, the hammer may make contact until something like a .6, .7 or .8 mm increase (just guessing). I would try this, as you can always quickly sand the rod length down, if there is no improvement. Did you achieve a better shot count (all things being equal) with the opened transfer port?
Do you have a standard length gun? Turns out you need to check 135-140-145 bar pressure and select the best one.
DT
Hammer spring is new and the hammer weight is securely attached.
I switched out my 3.31mm valve stem for a 3.5mm today but no increase in speed. Maxing out at 870fps with the 34gr mk2 pellets on 130bar reg setting. I must be missing something… On a side note, I think I’m addicted to tinkering with this gun.
Hammer weight and tension good?
DT
Tip of Valve stem also looks a bit de shaped or maybe it looks like that due to angle of light
I finally got my parts back today. My new air tube TP is 5.8mm from 5.6mm. Breech TP is 5.6mm from 5.3mm. The throat was opened up as well, although don’t have any measurements. My speed at the first peak unfortunately did not have a drastic improvement. It went from ~885fps to 895fps with the Huma reg set at 140b. At this setting, I got roughly 2 mags (18 shots) with a 200b fill pressure. I also looked at my valve stem housing and noticed it has the same horizontal line huntjunky mentioned in his post. My current valve stem protrudes 3.31mm from the brass housing. I’m going to cut a new one and see if I can get similar numbers to huntjunky.
Will the Edgun .25 handle these Nielson slugs with its choked barrel? Interesting option if a barrel can be sourced.
Regards,
DT
I was finally able to finish cleaning/inspecting/sorting approximately 1500 JSB MK II…I will post comparative results, against unsorted, in a new thread. In the meantime, I was able to do some field testing, over the weekend. I learned several things…1) I love the reduced wind drift, with the combination of the Huma Power Plenum and JSB Heavies (basically, 40 % less hold off). 2) The additional energy, at range, is quite significant, as noted on a couple of marginal shots, in excess of 120 yds. Both were gut shots but still anchored the bunny for a follow up. 3) These rabbit’s must eat dirt and rocks to survive in this habitat. Here’s a few that ate some lead :8:
nice data huntjunky, thx!
my r3m valve rod – 4,2 mm
Please also post the groupings with Heavies.
I have the 25 caliber Huma magnum matador. One future improvement I’d like to see is if the hammer weight can be made a bit narrower so the hammer/trigger assembly can be remover fron the Matador without having to remove the end cap at the rear. Other than that I’m very happy with my purchase just awaiting the arrival of my new Crono so I can do more testing.
Apparently, we’re limited to three attachments, so here is a continuation of the data after I changed the valve rod length:
Edgun 34g-125 Bar Reg, HST: +2 turn- 893 fps
Charge: 220-121 Bar
ES: 14 SD: 4.1
Shot Count: 31
BC: .0505
Avg. Accuracy: .64” ctc- (6) 5 shot groups @ 50 yds (unsorted)
Edgun 34g-130 Bar Reg, HST: +1 turn- 873 fps
Charge: 220-121 Bar
ES: 24 SD: 6.5
Shot Count: 40
BC: .0505
Avg. Accuracy: ”.58 ctc- (8) 5 shot groups @ 50 yds (unsorted)
Edgun 34g-130 Bar Reg, HST: +1 1/2 turn- 898 fps
Charge: 220-121 Bar
ES: 23 SD: 5.3
Shot Count: 32
BC: .0505
Avg. Accuracy: ”.59 ctc- (7) 5 shot groups @ 50 yds (unsorted)
If anyone has John open up there transfer port, please report your results…I am speculating this will increase efficiency, improving shot count and also, produce a higher velocity, for any given reg and HST setting. Hope this perhaps helps someone concerned with reaching their desired velocity and those going through the tuning process.
There has been much discussion concerning achieving adequate pellet velocity or lack there of. I was challenged by this same issue. In the course of experimenting with some 11 different reg tunes, I noticed that there was a ceiling on my peak velocity @ 135 bar reg setting, which didn’t yield any additional velocity over a 130 bar setting. The following is something those with this “condition” may check. After inspecting key components, I determined that my transfer port (top and bottom) were under size, from later model Matadors. (Mine is 2013 R3M Long) I believe this may account for efficiency deficiency (say that fast 3 times) and a lower shot count. More importantly, I noted that with the addition of the hammer weight and my gun’s particular valve return and hammer spring, that the hammer was contacting the brass valve guide which was evidenced by a line across it, just above the valve rod. This would limit the dwell time, of the valve, at higher HST settings. I measured the rod projection @ 3.02 mm (the short side of OEM specs). Subsequently, I replaced the valve, with one I cut at a 3.52 mm projection (the long side of OEM specs). The results were a marked increase in peak velocity to that of which is expected/reported. The following is collected data from testing this revision. After this installation, I only tuned for 125 bar and 130 bar reg, as 120 bar was too slow and 130 bar achieved the peak velocity I was looking for. As follows:
PEAK VELOCITY TUNING (3 shots per setting averaged):
WITH 3.02 MM VALVE ROD:
EDGUN HUMA POWER PLENUM TESTING
Matador R3M .25 Cal. Long w/ 33.95 g JSB Heavies
120 Bar HST Tuning (HST turns/fps):
0-796 1/8-802 1/4-811 3/8-818 1/2-823 5/8-830 3/4-835 7/8-836 1-843 1 1/8-834 1 1/4-819 1 3/8-807
125 Bar HST Tuning (HST turns/fps):
0-805 1/8-810 1/4-821 3/8-830 1/2-834 5/8-834 3/4-848 7/8-854 1-857 1 1/8-862 1 1/4-862 1 3/8-855
1 1/2-840 1 5/8-827
130 Bar HST Tuning (HST turns/fps):
0-822 1/8-832 1/4-844 3/8-854 1/2-856 5/8-861 3/4-873 7/8-882 1-881 1 1/8-892 1 1/4-900 1 3/8-899 1 1/2-897
1 5/8-901 1 3/4-882 1 7/8-867
135 Bar HST Tuning (HST turns/fps):
0-813 1/8-817 1/4-826 3/8-835 1/2-840 5/8-844 3/4-858 7/8-867 1-872 1 1/8-866 1 1/4-883 1 3/8-881 1 1/2-890
1 5/8-887 1 3/4-896 1 7/8-900 2-894 2 1/8-879 2 1/4-875
WITH 3.52 MM VALVE ROD:
EDGUN HUMA POWER PLENUM TESTING
EDGUN 34g, CHANGE VALVE ROD FROM 3.02 mm to 3.52 mm
125 Bar HST Tuning (HST turns/fps):
0-809 1/8-814 1/4-826 3/8-828 1/2-834 5/8-839 3/4-853 7/8 -856 1-870 1 1/8-871 1 1/4-872 1 3/8-877
1 1/2-887 1 5/8-887 1 3/4-891 1 7/8-894 2-894 2 1/8-896 2 ¼-901 2 3/8-899 2 ½-900 2 5/8-904 2 ¾-892 2 7/8-884 3-881
130 Bar HST Tuning (HST turns/fps):
0-830 1/8-832 1/4-838 3/8-839 1/2-853 5/8-853 3/-860 7/8-869 1-881 1 1/8-880 1 1/4-891 1 3/8-898 1 1/2-900
1 5/8-901 1 3/4-906 1 7/8-909 2-904 2 1/8-911 2 ¼915 2 3/8-915 2 ½-919 2 5/8-920 2 ¾-918 2 7/8-903 3-895
904 911 915 915 919 920 918 903 895
DATA WITH LONGER VALVE ROD:
Edgun 34g-125 Bar Reg, HST: +1 turn- 862 fps
Charge: 220-121 Bar
ES: 37 SD: 7
Shot Count: 46
BC: .0505
Avg. Accuracy: .73” ctc- (7) 5 shot groups @ 50 yds (unsorted)
Edgun 34g-125 Bar Reg, HST: +1 1/2 turn- 877 fps
Charge: 220-121 Bar
ES: 22 SD: 5.6
Shot Count: 37
BC: .0505
Avg. Accuracy: .63” ctc- (7) 5 shot groups @ 50 yds (unsorted)
Edgun 34g-125 Bar Reg, HST: +1 1/4 turn- 879 fps
Charge: 220-121 Bar
ES: 17 SD: 4.2
Shot Count: 38
BC: .0505
Avg. Accuracy: .65” ctc- (7) 5 shot groups @ 50 yds (unsorted)
Referencing accuracy vs speed and touching on what I mentioned in the previous post, pellet selection and possibly sorting seems to be as critical as speed variations. I just purchased 8 tins of MK II which are more like the latest Edgun 34g in head fit and skirt configuration. I’m working with those now and will try cleaning & sorting for weight and head diameter. My magic combination, at this point is, the MK II “shallow skirt w/ large ID”, shot at 898 fps. Here’s one of my better cards and have had comparable results from 890-910 fps. (.38″ ctc avg @ 50 yds, 891 fps, MK II “shallow skirt” unsorted, no wind)
:8: Click this Pic
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I don’t think you’re missing anything. I crossed this same bridge with the same model (standard) made in the same year (2014). As you’ve done now, I also opened the TP’s but both of mine to 5.8mm. As already stated, I had to up reg to 142 bar to reach a 905 max and then tuned to 890 fps. It only got about 20 regulated shots. My accuracy wasn’t stellar with either the 34 gr (MK1 or MK2). It honestly could be that the standard’s light weight effected the accuracy for me. With the added hammer weight and moving that much air with each shot definitely made for more noticeable recoil.
I’ve since installed the OEM parts back in and retuned to shoot the 25 gr. It shoots these more accurately and of course has a good shot count.
I am considering a long version now……